>> I'M JUST GOING TO RECORD IT. [00:00:02] >> GO AHEAD. [I. Call to Order] >> GOOD EVENING, EVERYONE. THIS IS THE REGULAR MEETING OF THE DECATUR PLANNING COMMISSION FOR APRIL 9TH. MY NAME IS RACHEL COGBURN AND I WILL BE CHAIRING THE COMMISSION THIS EVENING. THIS IS A SEVEN MEMBER COMMISSION OF DECATUR RESIDENTS APPOINTED BY THE CITY COMMISSION. THIS COMMISSION HEARS APPLICATIONS FOR LAND USE AND ZONING CHANGES, CONDITIONAL USE PERMITS, SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS, AND LAND SUBDIVISIONS. IT ALSO REVIEWS AND RECOMMENDS CHANGES TO THE CITY ZONING REGULATIONS AND FUTURE LAND USE PLANS. I WOULD LIKE TO ACQUAINT YOU WITH THE PROCEDURES THIS COMMISSION FOLLOWS IN THE CONDUCT OF ITS MEETINGS. WE WILL HEAR APPLICATIONS TONIGHT IN THE ORDER THEY ARE LISTED ON THE PRINTED AGENDA. APPLICANTS ARE GIVEN TIME TO PRESENT THEIR CASE WHEN THEIR APPLICATION IS CALLED. SUPPORTING AND OPPOSING PARTIES ARE ALSO GIVEN AN OPPORTUNITY TO PRESENT THEIR REMARKS TO THE COMMISSION. PLEASE BE SURE TO STATE YOUR NAME AND YOUR ADDRESS BEFORE BEGINNING YOUR REMARKS SINCE THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON THE APPLICANT TO CONVINCE THE COMMISSION TO VOTE IN THEIR FAVOR, APPLICANTS ARE ALSO ALLOWED TO PRESENT REBUTTAL TO ANY OPPOSITION AGAINST THEM. OPPOSING PARTIES ARE NOT GRANTED AN OPPORTUNITY FOR REBUTTAL. WHILE WE DO NOT FORMALLY LIMIT THE TIME FOR MULTIPLE PARTIES TO SPEAK IN SUPPORT OR OPPOSITION TO AN APPLICATION, WE DO ASK SPEAKERS TO REFRAIN FROM SPENDING TIME REPEATING ARGUMENTS THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN PRESENTED. INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS ARE ALSO ASKED TO BE CONCISE WHEN MAKING THEIR REMARKS. ONCE ALL INTERESTED PARTIES HAVE BEEN HEARD, WE WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING FOR THE APPLICATION. PLEASE REFRAIN FROM ANY APPLAUSE OR DIALOGUE DURING OR AFTER PRESENTATIONS. ALL REMARKS SHOULD BE ADDRESSED TO THE COMMISSION AND WE ASK YOU TO REFRAIN FROM ENGAGING ANYONE ELSE DIRECTLY. PLEASE SHOW THE SAME RESPECT TO ANYONE WHO IS SPEAKING THAT YOU WOULD EXPECT TO RECEIVE YOURSELF. THE PLANNING COMMISSION MAKES RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE CITY COMMISSION WHICH HAS FINAL MAKING AUTHORITY. AND FINALLY, WE ARE SUPPORTED THIS EVENING BY OUR PLANNING AND ZONING TEAM, KC KRZIC, AND NAME AND AT THIS TIME, I WOULD LIKE TO ASK MY FELLOW PLANNING COMMISSIONERS TO INTRODUCE THEMSELVES STARTING TO MY LEFT. >> GOOD EVENING. I'M GREG CHILIK. >> GOOD EVENING. JOE GRECO. >> JASON FRIEDLANDER. >> JENNY STEIN. >> HI, MARC BRAMBRUT. >> HI, JOHN MCFARLAND. >> FIRST ON THE AGENDA, WE HAVE APPROVAL OF MINUTES FROM MARCH 12. [II.a. Approval of Minutes from March 12, 2024 regularly scheduled meeting.] HAS EVERYBODY HAD A CHANCE TO REVIEW THE MINUTES AND ARE THERE ANY CHANGES? CORRECTIONS? >> MOVE TO APPROVE? >> I HAVE A MOVED A MOTION TO APPROVE. IS THERE A SECOND? >> SECOND. >> APPROVING THE MINUTES FROM THE MARCH 12TH MEETING? PLEASE RAISE YOUR HAND. ANY OPPOSITION AND ANY ABSTENTIONS? WE HAVE NEW BUSINESS, TWO ITEMS, [Items III.a. & III.b.] BOTH FROM SMARTIES ACADEMY HAS REQUESTED THE MODIFICATION OF ZONING CONDITIONS TO INCREASE ENROLLMENT OF A DAYCARE CENTER, FROM 148-178 STUDENTS, AND ALSO A REQUEST FOR MODIFICATION OF CONDITIONS OF A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT TO INCREASE ENROLLMENT OF THE DAYCARE CENTER, FROM 148-178. I BELIEVE THE REQUEST FOR MODIFICATIONS OF THE ZONING CONDITIONS AND MODIFICATION OF CONDITIONS OF A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT CAN BE HEARD TOGETHER, BUT SEPARATE MOTIONS WILL BE NEEDED FOR EACH REQUEST. SO AT THIS TIME, INVITE SMARTIES ACADEMY UP. >> HELLO, MY NAME IS BOGNA KABAT. I'M THE FOUNDER AND THE OWNER OF THE SMARTIES ACADEMY INDICATOR ADDRESS, 465 CLAIREMONT AVENUE. AS MANY OF YOU KNOW, WE ARE AN EARLY LEARNING CENTER FOR CHILDREN FOR AGES SIX WEEKS AND FIVE YEARS. WE HAVE BEEN BEFORE THE CITY PLANNING COMMISSION A NUMBER OF TIMES. CURRENTLY, WE ARE HOLD A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT TO ALLOW FOR CHILDCARE FACILITY WITH THE CAP OF 140 A STUDENT. IN 2023, WE WERE SEEKING APPROVAL FOR AN ADDITION FOR THE EXISTING FACILITY, BUT WE DECIDED TO WITHDRAW THIS APPLICATION BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF SUPPORT OF OUR NEIGHBORS. OUR CURRENT CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT CAPS, TOTAL STUDENT ENROLLMENT AT 148 STUDENTS. AT THIS MOMENT, WE HAVE 500 CHILDREN ON OUR WAIT LIST. WE HAVE EXISTING CAPACITY FOR CLASSROOMS IN OUR CURRENT BUILDING. [00:05:02] OUR BUILDING OCCUPANCY IS 259. OUR LICENSE FROM BRIGHT FROM THE START IS 190. WE ARE ASKING TO INCREASE THE STUDENT ENROLLMENT, FROM 148-178 STUDENTS. >> AT THE TIME THAT YOU CAME IN FRONT OF THIS COMMISSION IN 2022, WAS THE BUILDING CAPACITY AT THAT TIME ALSO AT 259? >> AT THAT TIME WE DID NOT HAVE CAPACITY FOR THE WHOLE BUILDING. WE WE JUST HAD CAPACITY FOR THE CHILDCARE PART OF THE BUILDING. BUT DURING THE TIME WHEN WE OBTAINED THE WHOLE BUILDING, WE DID NOT HAVE THE NUMBERS FOR THE WHOLE CAPACITY. >> WHAT CHANGED BETWEEN 2022 AND NOW THAT ALLOWS FOR A GREATER CAPACITY? >> WE JUST ADDED THE PART WHICH USED TO BELONG TO THE CHURCH TO THE CHILDCARE, AND WE REQUESTED THE CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY FOR THE AREAS. >> DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? THE CHURCH USED TO BE THE PRIMARY USE ON THE PROPERTY, SO IN 2022, WHEN THE CHURCH WENT AWAY, THEY DISSOLVED OR WHATEVER THEY DID. THE REASON THEY CAME IN FRONT OF THE COMMISSION FOR THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT WAS BECAUSE NOW THEY WERE THE PRIMARY OCCUPANCY. THE CHURCH AT THE ZONING AT THAT TIME DISTINGUISH THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE CHURCH HAVING THE FULL PRIMARY CAPACITY AND THE DAY CARE BEING MORE OF LIKE AN ACCESSORY USE TO THE CHURCH. BUT WHEN THEY TOOK OVER THE WHOLE BUILDING, THAT'S WHY THEY CAME HERE IN 2022 FOR THAT CONDITIONAL USE BECAUSE NOW THEY WERE ABLE TO OCCUPY THE WHOLE BUILDING AS ONLY THEM. THAT MAKES SENSE? >> YES. I UNDERSTAND THE MECHANICS OF THE ZONING CHANGE THAT WAS REQUESTED AND GRANTED WITH THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT. ARE YOU SAYING THAT YOU DID NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO USE THE CHURCH BUILDING IN APRIL OF 2022? >> WE DID NOT. >> DID YOU HAVE INTENTIONS OF EXPANDING TO THE CHURCH BUILDING AT THAT TIME? >> WE WERE NOT SURE AT THIS MOMENT WHAT OUR PLAN FOR THE FUTURE. AT THIS MOMENT, WE JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE LEGALLY CAN OPERATE THE CHART OF THE CHILD CARE. >> THANK YOU. >> I HAVE A FOLLOW UP QUESTION. YOUR LICENSE NOW FOR STUDENTS GOES UP TO 190. WHAT DID IT GO UP TO IN 2022? >> OUR LICENSE IT WAS 148. IT WAS ON THE CAP. THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT WAS BASED ON THE CAPACITY OF THE LICENSE FROM RIGHT FROM THE START. ARE YOU AT CAPACITY NOW WITH 148 STUDENTS? WE ARE. WE ALSO HAVE A LONG WAIT LIST FOR OUR CHILDCARE. >> IN 2023, IT LOOKS LIKE YOU DID A TRAFFIC STUDY THAT ASSESSED THE NUMBER OF TRIPS THAT WERE A BASELINE BEFORE YOUR EXPANSION AND AFTER THE EXPANSION. AS PART OF THIS APPLICATION, DID YOU CONSIDER UPDATING THAT OR CAN YOU SPEAK A LITTLE BIT TO WHAT THE TRAFFIC STUDY SHOWED? >> SURE. OUR TRAFFIC STUDY WAS BASED ON 300 CHILDREN. THAT'S WHAT OUR ORIGINAL EXPANSION NUMBER WAS. THEN DUE TO LACK OF SUPPORT FROM OUR NEIGHBORS, WE DROPPED THE NUMBER 250. BUT UNFORTUNATELY, WE STILL DID NOT GET SUPPORT FROM OUR NEIGHBORS. BECAUSE OF NOT HAVING ENOUGH SUPPORT, WE DECIDED TO WITHDRAW THIS APPLICATION AND WE DECIDED NOT TO FOCUS ON EXPANSION AT THIS LOCATION. >> BUT THE TRAFFIC STUDY WAS DONE FOR THE BIGGER THING? >> THE TRAFFIC STUDY, THE DOCUMENTATION WHICH YOU HAVE IN YOUR RECORD WAS FOR 300 CHILDREN. THEN THE TRAFFIC STUDY WAS CORRECTED TO 250 CHILDREN. I DON'T REMEMBER RIGHT NOW THE NUMBER, BUT THE NUMBERS WERE VERY COMFORTABLE WITH THOSE NUMBERS. WITH THE 300 AND 250. >> NO ADDITIONAL TRAFFIC STUDIES HAVE BEEN DONE? [00:10:03] >> NO ADDITIONAL TRAFFIC STUDY. I DIDN'T THOUGHT THAT THERE WAS A NEED SINCE THE TRAFFIC STUDY FOR 300 CHILDREN AND 250 WAS FINE. >> CAN YOU EXPLAIN HOW YOU CAME TO THIS NUMBER OF 178 SINCE IT SEEMS LIKE BEFORE YOU WERE AT YOUR STATE LICENSE CAPACITY. SO 5178 AND NOT 190. >> THERE IS AN AREA THAT EXISTS AT CHAPEL WHICH WE WOULD LIKE TO USE FOR AFTER SCHOOL PROGRAM. OR WE MAY LATER TURN IT INTO THE CLASSROOM. SMARTIES CHILDCARE, BELIEVE IN HIGH QUALITY PROGRAM. WE DO NOT WANT TO GO OVER THIS NUMBER. SUMMER CAMP CAN BE AFTER 30 CHILDREN. OR IF WE DECIDE TO TURN THIS INTO TWO CLASSROOMS, THAT'S GOING TO BE ABOUT TWO CLASSROOMS FOR 15 CHILDREN. >> WOULD THAT INCREASE REQUIRE ADDITIONAL STAFF? >> MOST LIKELY. >> DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW MANY THAT WOULD BE? >> FOUR ADDITIONAL. >> YES. >> IF I UNDERSTAND YOU CORRECTLY THOUGH, AFTER SCHOOL WOULD BE A NEW ENDEAVOR SO IT WOULD NOT DO ANYTHING TO RELIEVE THE WEIGHT LIST THAT YOU'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THEN? >> IT WILL NOT. THE SUMMER CAMP WILL REALLY HELP OUR EXISTING PARENTS SO THEY DO NOT HAVE TO DROP THE YOUNGER CHILDREN AT OUR CHILDCARE AND THEY DON'T HAVE TO DRIVE THEIR CHILDREN TO GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. >> THE 30 ADDITIONAL IS FOR YOUR STAFF STUDENTS? >> THIRTY ADDITIONAL. AT THIS MOMENT, OUR PLAN IS TO DO IT FOR SUMMER CAMP, AND THAT MAY INCLUDE OUR STAFF CHILDREN AS WELL. >> THE 30 ADDITIONAL WOULD ONLY BE DURING THE SUMMER? >> AT THIS MOMENT, WE ARE THINKING TO DO IT ONLY DURING THE SUMMERTIME. BUT WE MAY DECIDE TO DIVIDE THIS AREA INTO TWO ROOMS AND CREATE THIS AS A CLASSROOM, WHICH WILL BE 15 AND 15 CHILDREN, OR 14 AND 16. >> LONG TERM YOU WOULD INCREASE OVERALL [OVERLAPPING] AND YOU'D HAVE 178. >> DO YOU NEED THE INCREASE ON 148 TO 178 TO JUST DO THE AFTER SCHOOL PROGRAM? >> AT THIS MOMENT, WE ARE FOCUSING FOR SUMMER CAMPS. LIKE SUMMER CAMP, MAYBE AFTER SCHOOL PROGRAM OR TWO CLASSROOMS UP TO 30 CHILDREN, WHICH WILL BE 14 AND 16. BUT REALLY AT THIS MOMENT, WHAT OUR PLAN IS IS TO DO SUMMER CAMP. >> BUT JUST TO DO SUMMER CAMP, DO YOU NEED THE 178 CAP? >> CORRECT. >> ARE THERE ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS? >> THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. AT THIS TIME, I WOULD LIKE TO INVITE THOSE IN FAVOR OF THE APPLICANT TO SPEAK. >> WE DID NOT INVITE OUR SUPPORT. WE JUST REALLY DIDN'T THINK THAT IS NECESSARY, AND WE REALLY THOUGHT THAT OUR NEIGHBORS ARE SATISFIED THAT WE DECIDED NOT TO GO WITH EXPANSION. WE REALLY TRY TO LISTEN TO THEM AND BE RESPECTFUL SO WE DID NOT INVITED SUPPORTERS TO SUPPORT THIS APPLICATION. >> THANK YOU. >> WE HAVE ONLINE. OUR SPEAKER TURNED ON? [00:15:01] >> THE COMPUTER ISN'T STARTING. SO SORRY ABOUT THAT. GIVEN THAT AT THIS TIME, [OVERLAPPING] I WOULD LIKE TO INVITE THOSE OPPOSED TO SPEAK. REMEMBER TO PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS. >> SURE. MY NAME IS MARK BROWN. I LIVE AT 128 ERIE AVENUE, JUST ACROSS THE STREET FROM SMARTIES. FIRST OF ALL, I WOULD LIKE TO SAY I'VE HAVE A LOT OF RESPECT FOR BOGNA. I REALLY THINK THAT WHAT SHE PROVIDES IS A NEEDED SERVICE. WHAT I OPPOSE IS IT'S LIKE TOOTH BASE. ONCE IT GETS OUT OF THE MODEL, YOU CAN'T PUT IT BACK. WELL, WE'VE APPROACHED THAT WITH THE TRAFFIC. THE TRAFFIC CONGESTION IS VERY CONSIDERABLE. THE PARKING LOT, JUST ACROSS THE STREET, IS FILLED ALL THE TIME. THE DROP OFF IS VERY COMPLICATED. IN MY OPINION, VERY DANGEROUS. THERE'S NO SECURITY TO PROVIDE SAFETY FOR THE COMING AND GOING OF THAT MUCH TRAFFIC. BECAUSE OF THE FULL PARKING LOT, A LOT OF THE SCHOOL TEACHERS PARK ON THE STREET, AND ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS GO LOOK AND SEE FOR YOURSELF. IT IS REALLY FULL. I OPPOSE IT BECAUSE OF THE TRAFFIC CONDITIONS. I ALSO OPPOSE IT BECAUSE OF THE COMMERCIAL SCALE THAT WE'VE GONE FROM. IT'S FROM ORIGINALLY 148-170. THIS IS A BIG OPERATION. IT'S NOT SMALL BY ANY MEANS. THERE ARE TRUCKS COMING AND GOING AT ALL TIMES OF THE HOUR. THERE'S MAINTAINING THE YARD, THE WEED EATERS. IT'S A COMMERCIAL ENTERPRISE. I OPPOSE IT BECAUSE YOU'RE PUTTING THIS IN THE MIDDLE OF A NEIGHBORHOOD. I JUST DON'T THINK THAT SCALE NEEDS TO BE WHERE IT IS. I MENTIONED THE SAFETY, AND THEN THE GUARDS. THAT'S ALL I HAVE. >> THANK YOU. >> MY NAME IS JACK HUTCHESON. I LIVE AT 516 CLAIREMONT. I ALSO HAVE A BIG TRAFFIC ISSUE WITH THIS. WHERE MY HOUSE SITS IS DIRECTLY WHERE ERIE AVENUE EXITS OUT ONTO CLAIREMONT. THE TRAFFIC BACKS UP THERE TERRIBLY AT SCHOOL CHANGE TIMES. ERIE, FOR ANY OF YOU WHO KNOW, IS A VERY NARROW STREET, AND FOR TRAFFIC TO GET THROUGH THERE WHILE THE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL IS EMPTYING AND COMING AND GOING, WHILE SMARTIES IS COMING AND GOING IS JUST A NIGHTMARE. I DON'T WANT TO REITERATE WHAT WAS ALREADY SAID. THE TRAFFIC IS MY PRINCIPAL CONCERN. IT WOULD BE OF INTEREST FOR ME TO KNOW WHAT PERCENTAGE OF BOTH THE STUDENT BODY AND THE APPLICANT LIST POOL IS FROM THE CITY OF DECATUR. >> EVERYONE, MY NAME IS MATTHEW WOODRUFF. I LIVE AT 124 ERIE, WHICH IS DIRECTLY ACROSS THE STREET SO WE ARE RIGHT ACROSS THE PARKING LOT. I'M ACTUALLY NOT HERE TO SPEAK IN OPPOSITION DIRECTLY TO THIS PROPOSAL, BUT I DO THINK THAT I PROVIDE SOME UNIQUE PERSPECTIVE. I HAVE THREE CHILDREN THAT HAVE GONE THROUGH SMARTIES DAYCARE. IT'S WONDERFUL PLACE, IT BELONGS IN THE CITY OF DECATUR. THEY DO AN EXCELLENT JOB. WE CONTINUE TO SEND OUR KIDS THERE. I HAVE ALSO GRADUATED ONE STUDENT FROM THERE WHO NOW GOES TO CLAIREMONT UP THE STREET. I'M A MEMBER OF THE SCHOOL LEADERSHIP TEAM THERE, SO THE CHARTERED LEADERSHIP TEAM. I'M NOT SPEAKING ON THEIR BEHALF. I'M SPEAKING AS AN INDIVIDUAL. I'M ALSO ON THE PTA OVER THERE. WE HAVE FINGERS IN ALL OF THESE PIES, I SUPPOSE. WHAT I WANTED TO DO WAS JUST PROVIDE PERSPECTIVE ON WHAT WE ARE CONSIDERING WHILE THINKING ABOUT THIS APPLICATION. WE DON'T KNOW TRAFFIC STUDIES THE WAY THAT YOU DO. I THINK THAT THIS IS WHY YOU WERE APPOINTED. BUT WHAT I WILL SAY IS THERE IS CERTAINLY CONVERSATION ROUTINELY ABOUT THE LIMITED NATURE OF DAYCARE, HIGH QUALITY DAYCARE IN THE CITY OF DECATUR, THAT'S A GIVEN. THIS IS COSTLY. IT IS NOT ACCESSIBLE TO EVERYBODY, BUT NONETHELESS, DAYCARE IS NEEDED. FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE, WE DO APPRECIATE THE WORK THAT BOGNA DOES. LIKE I SAID, WE THINK THE BUSINESS IS WONDERFUL. FROM A SCHOOL PERSPECTIVE, THERE ARE A LOT OF WALKERS THAT COME THROUGH THAT ERIE AVENUE CORRIDOR. CITY SCHOOLS OF DECATUR OBVIOUSLY TRIES TO REALLY EMPHASIZE KIDS WALKING TO SCHOOL. I'M NOT GOING TO LIE AND TELL YOU THAT SOMETIMES THAT DOESN'T LOOK [00:20:01] LIKE PARKING OUTSIDE OF SMARTIES, AND THEN WALKING ALONG THAT. THAT IS OBVIOUSLY NOT THE FAULT OF SMARTIES, BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT THERE IS A FAIR AMOUNT, ACTUALLY THERE'S A LOT OF FOOT TRAFFIC, SOMETIMES ON SCOOTERS, SOMETIMES ON BIKES, ALL OF THOSE THINGS. THERE IS A LOT OF TRAFFIC IN THE MORNING, A LOT OF THAT IS CLAIREMONT. THE TURNING UP THE STREET IS EXTRAORDINARILY NARROW. THERE ARE A LOT OF KIDS BEING DROPPED OFF BY PARENTS THAT ARE IN A RUSH. AGAIN, THIS IS NOT THE FAULT OF SMARTIES. THE CORRIDOR IS JUST BUSY. WITH ALL THAT BEING SAID, I DON'T THINK IT'S MY ROLE TO ASSESS THE POTENTIAL IMPACT OF 30 ADDITIONAL STUDENTS ON THE CORRIDOR, BUT THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT WE ARE THINKING ABOUT WHEN WE'RE THINKING ABOUT THE PROPOSAL IN TANDEM WITH AN OBVIOUS NEED FOR DAYCARE. THE OTHER PIECE IS PURELY A NEIGHBOR, AND THIS IS JUST RELATING CONVERSATIONS THAT I HAVE HEARD. OBVIOUSLY, THIS PROPOSAL COMES OFF THE BACK OF A MUCH LARGER PROPOSAL. WE APPRECIATED THE RESET THAT THAT WAS TAKEN. I DON'T KNOW IF I SHARE THIS, BUT THERE MAINTAINS A CONVERSATION ABOUT A CONCERN OF POTENTIAL SLOW WALKING EXPANSION AROUND HERE. AGAIN, NOT CLEAR TO ME THAT THAT IS THE PURPOSE HERE, AND IT'S NOT EVEN CLEAR TO ME WHAT THE SOLUTION TO THAT IS. WHETHER GUARANTEES CAN BE GIVEN TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT EXPANSION DOESN'T CONTINUE IN THE FUTURE. THANK YOU. THOSE ARE THE CONSIDERATIONS THAT I WANTED TO BRING BEFORE YOU TODAY SO THAT YOU HAVE A ROUNDED PERSPECTIVE ON WHAT WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. >> MY NAME IS DEBORAH PAINTER AND I LIVE AT 320, SUPERIOR AVENUE. I LIVE THE FARTHEST AWAY FROM SMARTIES, PROBABLY THAN ANYBODY IN HERE. BUT YEAH, THE TRAFFIC STILL IMPACTS ME BECAUSE INSTEAD OF THEM GOING UP TO CLAIREMONT AND DRIVING DOWN CLAIREMONT, THEY DRIVE PAST MY HOUSE. WHEN I HAVE TO STAND AND WATCH AND WAIT FOR THE AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC TO GO UP SUPERIOR FOR ME TO CROSS THE STREET WITH MY DOG WHEN I WALK HER IN THE MORNINGS, THEN THERE'S TOO MUCH TRAFFIC GOING UP SUPERIOR. I DON'T CARE HOW MANY STUDENTS SHE HAS. SHE COULD ADD 500 MORE STUDENTS AS LONG AS THEY WALK, OR RIDE A BIKE, JUST NO MORE CARS. I THINK A LOT OF THE TRAFFIC, STUDIES WERE DONE ON CLAIREMONT. THEY DIDN'T REALLY LOOK INTO THE TRAFFIC THAT GOES THROUGH THE NEIGHBORHOOD THERE. CHANGING THE CHARACTER, IF YOU ADD MORE STUDENTS, YOU'RE ALSO GOING TO CHANGE SOME OF THE CHARACTER OF THE PROPERTY. YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DO SOME THINGS TO MAKE MAYBE THE PLAYGROUND BIGGER OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, CUT DOWN TREES. YOU TAKE THIS ESTABLISHED LANDSCAPING, THAT IS WHAT MAKES DECATUR, DECATUR. WALKING THROUGH THE GREAT LAKES NEIGHBORHOOD RIGHT NOW, THERE'S BLOOMS ON THOUSANDS OF KINDS OF OXALIS, THERE'S HYDRANGEAS, THERE'S ALL KINDS OF TREES. WHEN YOU START CHANGING ALL THAT, IT'S HARD TO GO BACK AND REESTABLISH IT. THE HOUSE THAT I LIVE IN, I'VE HAD TO WORK ON LANDSCAPING TO MAKE MY HOUSE A LITTLE BIT MORE PRIVATE OFF OF SCOTT BOULEVARD AND TO DECREASE THE AMOUNT OF NOISE. IT JUST SEEMS LIKE THAT'S SOME OF WHAT IS DISAPPEARING, AND SMARTIES IS SOME OF THAT. THAT LANDSCAPING THAT WILL QUIET IT DOWN, MAKE IT A LITTLE MORE PRIVATE, AND CHANGES THAT CHARACTER OF THAT PROPERTY WHICH IS A COOL ENTRANCE COMING INTO THE GREAT LAKES. I HAVE AN ISSUE WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD TRAFFIC THAT COMES OUT OF THIS BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF IT. I'M EVERY DAY WALKING MY DOG, SO I SEE THE TRAFFIC AT DIFFERENT TIMES, BECAUSE DIFFERENT TIMES I WALK HER. AND THE TRUCK NOISE EARLY IN THE MORNINGS. TWO DAYS A WEEK I'M OUT HERE AT 5:00 O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING. THERE'S A LOT OF TRUCKS THAT DRIVE THROUGH MY NEIGHBORHOOD. ANYWAY, MY THOUGHT IS THAT THE TRAFFIC IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD CHANGES, AND AS LONG AS THEY ARE ALREADY COMING IN A CAR BECAUSE THEY HAVE A SIBLING THERE, OR IF THEY'RE WALKING OR RIDING A BIKE. AND THEN NOT TO NICKLE AND DIME US AGAIN, NOT TO COME BACK NEXT YEAR AND SAY I WANT TO ADD 20% MORE, EVERY YEAR UNTIL YOU GET TO DOUBLING YOUR ENROLLMENT. THANK YOU. >> I'M SHARON MARTIN. I USED TO LIVE AT 455 CLAIREMONT, AND NOW I'M AT 521 CLAIREMONT. SO WE'VE BEEN NEIGHBORS OF THIS PROPERTY FOR A WHILE. I REMEMBER THE VERY FIRST TIME WHEN THE CHURCH, WHICH DID DEPEND ON THIS DAYCARE FOR ITS SURVIVAL FOR SEVERAL YEARS, [00:25:03] WENT UNDER THIS OWNERSHIP. AND THAT WAS FINE. BUT WHEN THEY FIRST CAME BEFORE THE CITY TO ASK FOR PERMISSION TO EXPAND, AND IT WAS A CHANGE OF USE BECAUSE THE ZONING WAS, I THINK, INSTITUTIONAL, WHICH IS A CHURCH, AND THAT'S SUITABLE SURROUNDED BY HOMES AND AS WE ALL ARE. THERE ARE SOME CONDOS ON ONE SIDE, AND THEN THE REST OF US ARE SINGLE FAMILY HOMES. BUT THAT STATEMENT THERE, SHE WAS ASKED DIRECTLY WHETHER 148 STUDENTS WOULD BE FINE, AND THE NEIGHBORHOOD OBJECTED AT THAT POINT TO THAT NUMBER, AND SHE ASSURED US THAT IT WAS. SHE HAS BEEN BACK TO ASK FOR, AS I RECALL, 22023 WAS NOT 178. IT WAS 200 AND SOMETHING. AND IT DID INVOLVE THE EXPANSION OF THE BUILDING AND THE PLANT. THAT'S LARGER THAN THE ENTIRE POPULATION AND STUDENT BODY AT CLAIREMONT SCHOOL, WHICH IS 220, SO 40 I THINK WAS THE NUMBER. I'M NOT REMEMBERING THAT. I'M SORRY, BUT I THINK THAT'S ENTIRELY ACCURATE. AND AT THAT POINT, IT WAS A NECESSARY THING AND THEN SHE WAS GOING TO HAVE TO EXPAND. AND SINCE THEN, I KNOW BECAUSE I AM A NEIGHBOR AND I ALSO WALK MY DOGS. >> PLEASE ADDRESS US. >> THE SANCTUARY HAS BEEN RECLAIMED AND IS BEING REPURPOSED. THERE STILL SEEMS TO BE A LOT OF SLIDE HERE, BECAUSE THIS WAS GOING TO BE QUITE SUFFICIENT AND THEN IT'S WAY NOT SUFFICIENT. AND NOW ASKING AGAIN FOR A LARGER NUMBER OF STUDENTS BUT SHE STILL SAID AT THIS TIME, THAT'S NOT SAYING I WON'T BE BACK HERE NEXT YEAR TO TALK WITH YOU FOLKS AGAIN AND TALK WITH US AGAIN. I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THAT. AND I'M SO SORRY IF I CONFUSED THIS, BUT WAS SHE NOT GIVEN PERMISSION TO OPERATE AS A PRESCHOOL? NOT AS A DAYCARE. IT'S A MUCH BETTER PROGRAM THAN PROGRAM BY ALL ACCOUNTS. YOU WANT ME TO CUT THIS OFF? >> NO. PLEASE ADDRESS [OVERLAPPING] >> I WILL. SORRY. AND NOW TO HEAR THAT THIS EXPANSION IS ACTUALLY GOING TO BE ACCOMMODATING AN AFTERCARE PROGRAM FOR THE SIBLINGS OF THE PRESENT STUDENTS. SHE SAYS THEY'RE GOING TO BE OLDER. SHE SAID THAT TODAY. WHAT FACILITIES WILL THERE ALSO HAVE TO BE FOR THEM IN TERMS OF RECREATION OR CARE? MAYBE IN A SUMMER PROGRAM. WE'VE GOT A PLAYGROUND NOW THAT IS SIZABLE AND WELL USED AND WELL KEPT UP, BUT IT IS FOR SMALL CHILDREN. WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU'VE GOT 30 MORE OLDER? NO AGE WAS NAMED. BUT THAT SEEMS TO ME A DIFFERENT PURPOSE, AGAIN, FROM WHAT THE ORIGINAL PERMISSION WAS GIVEN, THE ORIGINAL CONSENT WAS GIVEN. AND THEN, AT THIS POINT, AT THIS TIME, THAT'S A PHRASE THAT WE KEEP HEARING. MY MISGIVING IS THAT THE GOAL POSTS KEEP BEING SHIFTED. THAT WHILE SUFFICIENT OPPOSITION WAS RAISED IN 2023, AND SHE HAS BACKED OFF FROM THE EXPANSION OF THE PHYSICAL BUILDING, THE NEXT ARGUMENT COULD WELL BE THAT WE NEED TO NOW GROW MORE, WE NEED TO HAVE MORE OF THAT FRONT YARD. I HAVE MISGIVINGS ABOUT ALL OF THAT. I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. >> IS THERE ANYONE ELSE THAT WISHES TO SPEAK? >> HI. MY NAME IS JULIA BROWN. I LIVE AT 128 ERIE AVENUE. I'M GOING TO READ BECAUSE I GET REALLY NERVOUS STANDING AND SPEAKING IN FRONT OF PEOPLE. BUT I OPPOSE THE INCREASE IN ENROLLMENT FOR ALL THE REASONS THAT I STATED IN MY LETTER TO YOU, AND IN THE LETTERS THAT YOU RECEIVED FROM MANY OF MY NEIGHBORS, SOME OF WHOM ARE NOT ABLE TO BE HERE TONIGHT. BARELY TWO YEARS AGO, SMARTIES AGREED TO THE CAP OF 148 STUDENTS. AND WE IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD RELIED ON THAT, AND IT WAS A BIG REASON WHY WE DID NOT OPPOSE THE INSTITUTIONAL ZONING AT THAT TIME. AND ALSO AT THAT TIME, IT SEEMS TO ME, FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, DIRECTLY ACROSS THE STREET FROM SMARTIES, THAT THINGS WERE QUIETER THERE THEN. [00:30:04] MAYBE THE ENROLLMENT WAS NOT WHAT IT IS TODAY. IT CERTAINLY DID NOT SEEM AS COMMERCIAL OR AS INTENSELY USED AS IT IS TODAY. I SPOKE ABOUT THAT IN MY LETTER AND THE THINGS THAT HAVE GIVEN RISE TO THAT COMMERCIALIZATION OF THE PROPERTY, THE LOOK AND FEEL, AND THE WHOLE CHANGE IN THE AESTHETICS OF ERIE AVENUE. AT LEAST OUR END OF IT. BUT SMARTIES DID AGREE TO THAT 148 CAP, AS I SAID, BARELY TWO YEARS AGO. THEN, ABOUT EIGHT MONTHS AFTER THAT, WITHIN THAT SAME YEAR, 2022, SMARTIES WENT BEFORE THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION WITH A PROPOSAL TO BASICALLY BUILD A BUILDING THAT WAS BIGGER THAN THE ORIGINAL CHURCH BUILDING. SO TO DOUBLE IN SIZE THEIR WHOLE OPERATION, AND TO DOUBLE THEIR STUDENT BODY. AND THAT THEN LED TO ANOTHER MEETING BEFORE THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION. SO TWO OF THOSE MEETINGS. THEN TWO MEETINGS BEFORE THIS PLANNING COMMISSION, AND THEN ANOTHER MEETING BEFORE THE CITY COMMISSION. SO THAT WAS ALL IN 2023. AND NOW WE'RE BACK AGAIN WITH A MUCH REDUCED PROPOSAL. BUT I WOULD SAY TO YOU THAT NOTHING HAS CHANGED AT ALL TO WARRANT AN INCREASE IN THE CAP. IF ANYTHING, THE COMMERCIALIZATION, THE INTENSIFICATION IN USE, TO ME, ARGUES FOR YOU IMPOSING SOME ADDITIONAL CONDITIONS. IF YOU READ MY LETTER, YOU'LL KNOW THE BASIS FOR THESE. BUT BASICALLY, THESE INCLUDE REPLACING THE GREEN BUFFER BETWEEN THE 449 CONDOS IN THE BACK OF SMARTIES PARKING LOT. PLANTING A GREEN BUFFER ALONG ERIE BETWEEN THE CURB CUTS, DIMMING THE NIGHT LIGHTING THAT'S VISIBLE FROM ERIE. AND THEN DOING SOMETHING ABOUT THE RECYCLING AND OTHER GARBAGE ON THE PROPERTY. AM I GOING TOO LONG? I'M GOING TO CLOSE WITH A QUOTE FROM THE FORMER CHAIR OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION WHO SAID THIS WHEN WE WERE HERE AT THE LAST MEETING AT THE PLANNING COMMISSION LAST YEAR. AND HE SAID THIS AFTER THE REBUTTAL OF A SMARTIES ATTORNEY. CHAIR BUCKLEY SAID, "IT HAS BEEN SUGGESTED THAT THE ISSUE HERE IS A FEAR OF CHANGE. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THE ISSUE IS THAT AT ALL, AT LEAST NOT FOR ME PERSONALLY. I THINK IT'S AN ISSUE OF TRUST". AND I THINK THAT IS STILL THE WAY IT IS. THANK YOU. >> GOOD EVENING. MY NAME IS RICK HERZOG. I LIVE AT 455 CLAIREMONT. I'VE LIVED ON CLAIREMONT FOR 40 YEARS. MY KIDS WENT TO CLAIREMONT ELEMENTARY AND THROUGH THE CITY SCHOOLS OF DECATUR. AS YOU HEARD TONIGHT, THE SMARTIES HAS ALREADY HAD A TREMENDOUS NEGATIVE IMPACT ON THE NEIGHBORHOOD. IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT SMARTIES WOULD ACKNOWLEDGE. SOMETIMES THERE IS A GIVE AND A TAKE, A BENEFIT FROM A DAYCARE, THE NEGATIVES OF THE COMMERCIALIZATION OF THIS PROPERTY IN THE MIDDLE OF OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. YOU'VE HEARD ABOUT SAFETY ISSUES ARISING FROM THE TRAFFIC AND THE KIDS MOVING AROUND. YOU'VE HEARD ABOUT THE TRASH ISSUES. I DON'T KNOW IF FULLY YOU HEARD ABOUT THE ILLEGAL CUTTING OF THE TREES IN THE WOOD LOT BACK BY THE CONDOS. I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAS BEEN DONE ABOUT IT, BUT I DO KNOW THAT A NUMBER OF TREES WERE CUT WITHOUT A PERMIT. THERE WAS SOME FORM OF CITATION, AND AS I SAID, I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S BEEN DONE WITH IT, BUT I HAVEN'T SEEN ANY NEW TREES PLANTED BACK THERE OR ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE LOT TO REPLACE THOSE. THERE'S BEEN AN ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT. YOU'VE HEARD ABOUT THE TRUCKS. SINCE SMARTIES HAS TAKEN OVER OWNERSHIP OF THE PROPERTY AND HAS BEGUN THEIR EFFORTS TO COMMERCIALIZE THE PROPERTY, [00:35:03] THERE HAS BEEN, SEEMS TO ME, AN INCREASE IN TRUCK TRAFFIC. SERVICE TRUCKS, REPAIR, MAINTENANCE, CONSTRUCTION VEHICLES, FOOD DELIVERING TRUCKS, AND SUPPLIES, ALL OF THESE SORTS OF THINGS. ALL OF THESE IMPACTS HAVE ALREADY OCCURRED BASED ON THE PERMIT THAT WAS GRANTED TWO YEARS AGO. BECAUSE AT THAT POINT, SMARTIES TOOK OWNERSHIP OF THE BUILDING AND BEGAN THE PROCESS OF COMMERCIALIZING. YOU'VE HEARD HOW THE NEIGHBORS HAVE HAD TO COME BACK HERE AND TO OTHER COMMISSION MEETINGS, HISTORIC SOCIETY COMMISSION MEETING, CITY COMMISSION MEETINGS, THIS COMMISSION, A HALF A DOZEN TIMES OR MORE IN THE LAST TWO YEARS, AND YOU ARE LOVELY PEOPLE AND SO FORTH, BUT HONEST TO GOD, THIS IS NOT WHERE I WANTED TO BE TONIGHT. I DIDN'T WANT TO BE HERE THE TIME BEFORE, THE TIME BEFORE. THIS EFFORT TO COMMERCIALIZE THIS PROPERTY IS CONTINUAL AND ONGOING. IF YOU GRANT IT TONIGHT, OR IF YOU RECOMMEND IT AND THE CITY COMMISSION GRANTS IT, THAT'S ALL SHE WANTS FOR THE MOMENT. SHE'LL BE BACK. IF YOU DENY, SHE'LL BE BACK. THAT'S JUST THE WAY IT WORKS. TONIGHT THERE'S TWO OPPOSING ARGUMENTS HERE ABOUT HOW A 20% INCREASE IN THE SIZE OF THIS COMMERCIAL BUSINESS WILL AFFECT THE NEIGHBORHOOD. SMARTIES SAID THERE WILL BE NO EFFECT. THEY DENY THAT THERE'S ALREADY BEEN EFFECT. THE NEIGHBORS WOULD SAY, "WHOA, THERE HAS BEEN AN EFFECT. THIS IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM WHAT WAS THE FACTS ON THE GROUND TWO YEARS AGO." HOW DO YOU DECIDE WHICH IS IT? THAT'S YOUR JOB, NOT MINE, BUT SMARTIES HAS A HISTORY. ONE THING YOU CAN THINK ABOUT IS THAT SMARTIES HAS A HISTORY OF TELLING THIS COMMISSION AND OTHER COMMISSIONS, THINGS THAT ARE NOT TRUE. SMARTIES, AS YOU'VE HEARD BEFORE, OBTAINED THEIR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT TO OPERATE IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD TWO YEARS AGO BY LYING ABOUT HAVING NO PLANS TO EXPAND. SMARTIES LATER ADMITTED PUBLICLY, BOTH AT A PUBLIC MEETING AND IN HEARINGS HERE, THAT SMARTIES HAD ALWAYS HAD PLANS TO EXPAND FROM THE BEGINNING. IT'S NOT LIKE THEY CHANGED THEIR MIND OVER TIME. THEY KNEW IT WHEN THEY SAID. THEY KNEW IT WASN'T TRUE, THEY SAID IT AGAIN, AND THEN THEY SAID IT A WEEK LATER, AFTER THEY'D HAD A CHANCE TO THINK ABOUT IT. THEY SAID IT TO THIS COMMISSION. THEY SAID IT TO THE THE CITY COMMISSION THAT 148 WAS ENOUGH, WAS SUFFICIENT, AND THEY HAD NO FURTHER PLANS TO EXPAND. THEN THEY COME OUT IN A NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING TWO YEARS LATER AND SAY, "WE'D ALWAYS HAD PLANS." THEN THEY CAME BACK TO THIS COMMISSION AND SAID, "WELL, WE'D ALWAYS HAD PLANS." THEN THEY BLAMED IT ON THEIR LAWYER AND SAID, "WELL, ACTUALLY, I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT MY LAWYER WAS TELLING ME AT TWO SEPARATE MEETINGS A WEEK APART." THEY CAME BACK WITH A DIFFERENT LAWYER. THEY SAID IT WAS BECAUSE, WELL, OUR LAWYER DIDN'T EXPLAIN THINGS TO ME. I THINK THE TALE WOULD BE MORE LIKELY THAT THE LAWYER HAVING BEEN LIED TO, AND HAVING LIED TO THIS COMMISSION, AND HAVING LIED TO THE CITY COMMISSION WOULDN'T COME BACK ON HER BEHALF. ANYWAY, WE'LL NEVER KNOW THAT STORY, BUT WE DO KNOW HOW WE GOT HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE. IN THIS APPLICATION THAT IS BEFORE THIS BODY TONIGHT, SMARTY CLAIMS IN WRITING, IN THEIR APPLICATION, THAT THEY ARE LOCATED IN A COMMERCIALLY DEVELOPED PORTION OF CLAIREMONT AVENUE. THEY SAY THAT IN WRITING, THEY ARE LOCATED IN A COMMERCIALLY DEVELOPED PORTION OF CLAIREMONT AVENUE. THAT'S FALSE. THAT'S JUST NOT TRUE. SMARTIES IS LOCATED IN AN INSTITUTIONAL ZONED PARCEL, COMPLETELY SURROUNDED ON ALL SIDES BY HOMEOWNERS IN A RECOGNIZED DESIGNATED HISTORIC DISTRICT. THEY ARE NOT IN A COMMERCIAL DISTRICT. NOW THEY THINK IT'S A COMMERCIAL DISTRICT AND THEY WANT TO COMMERCIALIZE THE PROJECT AS MUCH AS THEY CAN, BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT THEY ARE AND IT'S NOT WHO THEY SAID THEY WERE WHEN THIS COMMISSION RECOMMENDED AND THE CITY COMMISSION AUTHORIZED THEM TO OPERATE. THAT'S ALL I'VE GOT. [00:40:03] IT'S LIKE REGARDING THE IMPACT, IT'S A 20% INCREASE IN SIZE. 20%, IT'S NOT JUST A SQUIDGE HERE. IS THE REGARDING THE IMPACT OF A 20% INCREASE IN SIZE OF A COMMERCIAL BUSINESS, AND IT BOILS DOWN TO IS THAT IMPACT, WHO YOU GOING TO BELIEVE? BELIEVE SMARTIES, YOU BELIEVE THE NEIGHBORS. THANK YOU. >> SPENCER HOSTETTER, 224 WILTON ACROSS THE STREET. ONE, WE GET ALL THE CUT-THROUGHS THAT COME THROUGH. I WASN'T GOING TO COME UP HERE AND SAY ANYTHING, BUT RICK MADE ONE STATEMENT THAT CAUSED A PAUSE. IT'S PEOPLE GET A LITTLE BIT NERVOUS WHEN SOMEONE SAYS THAT SOMEONE LIES. HIS POINT WAS THAT AT A MEETING THAT THE OWNER OF SMARTIES, HAD SAID THAT SHE DIDN'T INTEND TO CAP THE NUMBER OF STUDENTS. RICK SAID THAT SHE LIED BECAUSE SHE CAME BACK LATER AND SAID, OH, NO, MY ATTORNEY SAID THE WRONG THING. RICK'S TELLING THE TRUTH. I WAS AT THE SAME MEETING. I'M COMING UP HERE TO VERIFY WHAT HE HAS ALREADY SAID. I SAT AT THE MEETING AND HEARD THE OWNER SAY THAT WHEN SHE APPLIED FOR THE FIRST PERMIT, SHE DIDN'T INTEND FOR THAT TO JUST BE LIMITED THERE, BUT HER ATTORNEY WENT AHEAD AND APPLIED FOR IT BECAUSE HE NEEDED TO GET THE APPLICATION THROUGH. THAT WAS WHAT I HEARD BEING SAID. I BELIEVE THAT'S WHAT HE SAID. I ONLY COME UP HERE TO SAY THAT WHEN SOMEONE SAYS THAT SOMEONE LIES, THAT GETS US A LITTLE NERVOUS. I HEARD THE SAME COMMENTS. I INTERPRETED THEM THE SAME WAY. MY ONLY OTHER THING IS THAT THIS IS A INSTITUTIONAL PROPERTY THAT HAS BEEN HIGHLY COMMERCIALIZED. I LIVE ACROSS THE STREET IN A NEIGHBORING STREET, AND I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THE COMMERCIALIZATION. >> WE'VE GOT SOMEBODY ELSE COMING RIGHT NOW. >> HELLO. MY NAME IS CONNIE MOORE AND I LIVE AT 219 LUCERNE STREET, AND I GREW UP IN DECATUR, WENT TO DECATUR HIGH SCHOOL AND I LOVE DECATUR. I APPRECIATE VERY, VERY MUCH THE WORK THAT SMARTIES DOES. I PREFER TO CALL IT CHILDCARE RATHER THAN DAYCARE, BECAUSE SOME CHILDCARE IS AT NIGHT AND SOME DAYCARE IS ACTUALLY FOR ADULTS. CHILDCARE IS CHILDCARE, JUST SAYING. I LIKE THE TERM, EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION. I HAVE SOME PERSPECTIVE ON THIS BECAUSE MY FAMILY STILL OPERATES A CHILDCARE CENTER IN DECATUR, AND IT'S PROBABLY, IF NOT ONE OF THE LONGEST OPERATING ONES, AND IT'S SUBURBAN NURSERY SCHOOL ON SYCAMORE DRIVE. THAT'S WHY, HAVING WORKED THERE MYSELF AND GROWING UP IN IT, I HAVE SINCERE APPRECIATION FOR THE HARD WORK THAT IT TAKES TO DO THIS. WITH OUR SCHOOL OVER ON SYCAMORE DRIVE, WE ARE ALSO IN A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD. WE WERE LICENSED IN 1962, AND WE'VE BEEN IN CONTINUOUS OPERATION EVER SINCE. THAT SAID, WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO POINT OUT IS THAT I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT WE ARE IN A CHILDCARE DESERT AS THE TERM HAS BEEN USED AND WRITTEN ABOUT IN THE NEW YORK TIMES AND OTHERS. WE DO HAVE, JUST ROLLING OFF HERE, WE HAVE SOULSHINE. WE HAVE SUNSHINE HOUSE. WE HAVE THE FIRST SCHOOL AT THE FIRST BAPTIST CHURCH. WE HAVE DECATUR MONTESSORI. WE HAVE SUBURBAN NURSERY SCHOOL. WE HAVE P'S IN THE POD, COLLEGE HEIGHTS, AND WE HAVE ARBOR MONTESSORI. THAT'S JUST FROM OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD. PREVIOUSLY WHEN I'VE TALKED TO THE COMMISSION, I'VE GONE ACTUALLY TO THE BRIGHT FROM THE START RECORDS, AND YOU CAN LOOK AND SEE THE LOCATIONS BY AN AREA, WHAT THEY'RE LICENSED FOR, AND WHAT THEIR CURRENT ENROLLMENT IS. WE'RE PRETTY BLESSED, I THINK HERE TO HAVE A LOT MORE CHILDCARE THAN MAY BE OBVIOUS THAT IS AVAILABLE TO US. THAT ALSO SAID, I WOULD LIKE TO JUST QUESTION BECAUSE I ALSO HAD TO MANAGE WAITING LIST. IS 500 A CUMULATIVE NUMBER? IS IT A POINT IN TIME? BECAUSE I'VE HEARD THE WAITING LIST NUMBER BEFORE AS I'VE COME TO PREVIOUS MEETINGS ABOUT THIS, AND THE NUMBER DOES CONTINUE TO GROW AND I KNOW THEY HAVE A VERY GOOD PROGRAM THERE, AS WELL AS OTHER SCHOOLS IN THE CITY HAVE VERY GOOD PROGRAMS. BUT I WOULD JUST WANT TO KNOW HOW ONE GETS TO A NUMBER OF 500 BECAUSE THE REALITY IS, FROM WHAT I HAD TO MANAGE, I WOULD GET A CALL. WE ARE LOOKING FOR A SPOT IN THE TWO-YEAR-OLD ROOM. I SAID, WELL, WE'RE NOT GOING TO PROBABLY HAVE ONE, BECAUSE OF HOW WE'RE LICENSED AND OUR STAFFING AND PROBABLY FOR ANOTHER FOUR MONTHS. [00:45:06] BUT I WILL TAKE YOUR NAME AND NUMBER DOWN AND I CAN GET IN TOUCH WITH YOU IF SOMETHING COMES AVAILABLE. THAT WOULD HAPPEN TIME AFTER TIME AGAIN. THEN IN THE MEANTIME, WHAT DOES THE FAMILY DO? THEY GO AND CHECK AROUND AT THE OTHER SCHOOLS, THEY FIND OTHER ARRANGEMENTS, AND SO REALLY IS 500 IN TERMS OF 500 FAMILIES WAITING, IS THAT A TRUE SNAPSHOT OF WHAT IS GOING ON AT THE TIME? I WOULD JUST ASK THAT QUESTION. THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT, AND YES, THERE'S LOTS OF TRAFFIC COMING INTO OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. I SEE IT JUST AS A PLANNING COMMISSION ISSUE, WHAT GOES ON THERE AT GLEN LAKE AND THAT CROSSING RIGHT THERE ACROSS CHURCH STREET. I CAN SEE IT RIGHT THERE FROM MY HOUSE AND WE JUST WANT TO KEEP DECATUR SAFE. THANK YOU. >> ARE THERE ANY MORE COMMENTS IN OPPOSITION? I THINK FOR THE SAKE OF TIME, YOU HAD ASKED TO SPEAK AGAIN AND TO NOT SET THE PRECEDENT WHEN THERE ARE LARGER MEETINGS. THANK YOU. >> I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER SOME OF THOSE QUESTIONS WHICH WORKED AS A CONCERN HERE. >> OKAY. >> SO FIRST I HEAR ABOUT THE TRASH THAT WE CREATE A LOT OF TRASH, BUT THE PICTURES PROVIDED BY OUR NEIGHBORS, THIS TRASH AS MUCH AS BELONGS TO US, IT'S MOVED BY CITY OF DECATUR TO THAT STREET AND CITY OF DECATUR LEAVE IT LIKE THAT. WE ARE RESPONSIBLE TO MOVE THIS EMPTY TRASH BACK TO OUR PROPERTY. I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY, THIS IS NOT HOW WE OPERATE IN THIS LOCATION. I'VE PERSONALLY BEEN SHOCKED WITH THOSE PICTURES. WE CALLED MULTIPLE TIMES TO CITY OF DECATUR AND COMPLAINED ABOUT IT TOO. I ALSO CONSTANTLY HEAR ABOUT LYING 2022, WHEN WE WERE PURCHASING THE PROPERTY, WE DID NOT HAVE A PLAN WHAT WE ARE GOING TO DO AND HOW WE ARE GOING TO EXPAND ON THIS PROPERTY. THE QUESTIONS WERE, WHAT IS OUR ENROLLMENT AT THIS MOMENT, AND THIS IS WHY WE'VE BEEN CAP TO 148 CHILDREN BASED ON OUR CERTIFICATION FROM BRIGHT FROM THE START. I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER MORE QUESTIONS. >> I HAVE AT LEAST ONE QUESTION. I'LL START WITH, HOW MANY STAFF DO YOU CURRENTLY HAVE FOR YOUR 148 STUDENTS? >> THIRTY-EIGHT FULL-TIME EMPLOYEES AND FOUR PART-TIME EMPLOYEES, 42 EMPLOYEES TOTAL. >> DO ALL OF YOUR STAFF DRIVE INDIVIDUALLY? >> NO. MANY OF OUR STAFF CARPOOL, IT'S FULL SPANISH IMMERSION PROGRAM AND MANY OF OUR STAFF DRIVE FROM FARTHER AREA AND THEY CARPOOL. >> DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY STAFF CARS COME TO THE SCHOOL EVERY DAY? >> I DON'T KNOW THAT NUMBER. >> BECAUSE I COUNTED ON YOUR THING. YOU HAVE 48 PARKING SPACES. YOU HAVE 38 STAFF PLUS FOUR PART-TIME. SO IF THEY ALL DROVE INDEPENDENTLY OR BY THEMSELVES, YOUR PARKING LOT WOULD BASICALLY BE FULL WITH STAFF? >> IT'S NOT FULL. >> WITH STAFF? HALF FULL WITH STAFF? >> HALF FULL, YES. MAYBE EVEN LESS. BUT MULTIPLE OF OUR EMPLOYEES DO CARPOOL. I DON'T HAVE THOSE NUMBERS. >> OKAY. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. >> DO YOU WISH TO RESPOND TO THE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE LANDSCAPING BEING REMOVED? >> WE JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE CLEAN OUR LANDSCAPING AND WE MAKE IT MORE INVITED AND NICE. WE ARE ALSO PLANNING TO PLANT SOME TREES, WHICH ARE ALREADY PLACED THERE TO BE PLANT AROUND THAT PROPERTY. >> YOU DIDN'T TEAR DOWN TREES ILLEGALLY, NECESSARILY FOR JUST MAINTENANCE? I JUST WANT CLARITY ON THAT. >> THERE WAS AN AREA WHICH WAS CLEAN UP WITH LOTS OF BUSHES AND WE DID NOT REMOVE ANY TREES. WE JUST GOT FINED FOR REMOVING TREES WHICH WERE NOT THERE. THAT WAS ALWAYS THE QUESTION. WE HAD ARBORISTS COMING TO THE PROPERTY AND I PERSONALLY TALK TO THEM, THEY HAVEN'T SEEN TREES BEING REMOVED, BUT WE STILL END UP HAVING A FINE FOR REMOVING TREES, WHICH THEY WERE NOT THERE, BUT WE ARE PLANTING ADDITIONAL TREES AROUND THIS PROPERTY TO MAKE [00:50:01] SURE THAT THIS PROPERTY HAVE BEAUTIFUL, CLEAN LANDSCAPING. THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO US. WE ALSO DON'T CREATE A LOT OF ADDITIONAL TRAFFIC. WHEN WE TOOK OVER THE PROPERTY, WE HAD TO DO A LOT OF ADDITIONAL MAINTENANCE LIKE WE HAD TO EXCHANGE THE ROOF AND JUST UPDATE THIS PROPERTY WHICH USED TO BELONG TO THE CHURCH. THAT'S MAYBE WHERE OUR NEIGHBORS SEEN SOME TRUCKS AND PEOPLE WHO ARE DOING SOME WORK. >> CAN YOU CLARIFY THE LICENSE? I KNOW YOU SAID THAT YOU WERE ORIGINALLY A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, YOUR LICENSE WAS FOR 148, BUT YOU'RE CURRENTLY LICENSED FOR 190. >> CORRECT. >> DID YOU APPLY FOR AN INCREASE OR? >> AT THE MOMENT, WE'VE GOT OUR CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY. THE BRIGHT FROM THE START CAME TO OUR BUILDING, THE FIRE MARSHAL GAVE US THE CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY, AND THEN BRIGHT FROM THE START, GAVE US THE LICENSE BASED ON THAT SPACE. >> WHEN YOU ACQUIRED THE TOP PART FROM THE CHURCH, THE CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY INCREASED, ALLOWING YOU TO INCREASE YOUR LICENSE? >> CORRECT. >> BUT IF YOU WERE TO RENOVATE, IT WOULD BE FOR TWO CLASSROOMS, WHICH WOULD REALLY ONLY ACCOMMODATE AN ADDITIONAL 30 STUDENTS. >> CORRECT. >> NOT GO UP TO 190? >> WE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO DO 190 STUDENTS. >> IF YOUR PERMIT FROM BRIGHT FROM THE START IS FOR 190 STUDENTS, WHY WOULD THEY CHOOSE THAT NUMBER IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE SPACE AVAILABLE FOR 190 STUDENTS? >> THE SPACE IS AVAILABLE, BUT BECAUSE OF THE QUALITY WHICH WE PROVIDED, WE WILL NEVER GO TO THAT NUMBER BECAUSE THE WAY HOW THE SPACE IS DESIGNED, WE WILL NEVER FEEL COMFORTABLE TO CREATE SMALLER CLASSROOMS AND SQUEEZE CHILDREN BASED ON REQUIREMENTS FROM BRIGHT FROM THE START. >> THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT SAFETY. I KNOW THAT YOUR FACILITY BORDERS TWO CORNERS WHERE SAFE ROUTES TO SCHOOL FLOW. I KNOW THAT I MENTIONED THIS LAST YEAR AS WELL, BUT I'M LOOKING AT THE CRASH PORTAL RIGHT NOW. IT LOOKS LIKE THERE'S BEEN ABOUT 36 CRASHES JUST BETWEEN ERIE AVENUE AND YOUR DRIVEWAY. A DISCUSSION CAME UP AS TO WHETHER OR NOT YOU'D CONSIDER RE-ROUTING YOUR DROP OFF TRAFFIC TO MAKE IT SAFER. IS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU HAVE CONSIDERED? >> I'VE NEVER HEARD ABOUT THIS BEFORE. WHEN WE DID THE TRAFFIC STUDY, OUR TRAFFIC ENGINEER FELT VERY COMFORTABLE WITH WHAT WE WERE OFFERING AT THIS MOMENT IN TERMS OF SAFETY AND TRAFFIC. >> I'M THE ONE WHO BROUGHT IT UP LAST, SO I DO RECALL SAYING. BUT YOU ALSO MENTIONED THE TRAFFIC STUDY. ACTUALLY DECATUR REQUIRES A MULTI-MODAL STUDY WHICH SHOULD INCLUDE PEOPLE WHO ARE WALKING, PEOPLE WHO ARE BIKING, AND I DON'T BELIEVE THAT WAS INCLUDED IN THE STUDY THAT YOU PROVIDED LAST YEAR EITHER. THAT'S COME UP AS WELL. I BELIEVE ONE PERSON SAID, I WOULDN'T MIND IF THEY HAD 500 STUDENTS, IF THEY ALL WALKED AND BIKED, WOULD YOU BE ABLE TO PROVIDE US WITH SOME DATA ON THE PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE WHO ARE WALKING AND BIKING ALL FROM THE COMMUNITY OR CARPOOLING AS YOU WERE SAYING YOUR STAFF DOES? >> OUR TRAFFIC STUDY WAS BASED ON OUR EXPANSION UP TO 300 STUDENT OR 250 STUDENTS. I DON'T SEE THE NEED OF MOVING FORWARD AND PROVIDING THE NUMBERS FOR 178 STUDENTS BECAUSE THE NUMBER WAS GOOD FOR 300 OR 250 STUDENTS. SO I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY DO WE NEED TO CREATE. >> IT SAYS THAT THERE WAS A LEVEL OF SERVICE OF D, AND WITH THE IMPROVEMENTS, IT GOT TO A LEVEL OF SERVICE OF E WHICH IS WORSE. IT'S NOT ONLY WORSE, BUT THERE'S BEEN SO MANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THE NUMBER OF STUDENTS WALKING AND ACCESS. I WAS SURPRISED WE DIDN'T HAVE AN UPDATED TRAFFIC STUDY TO GO ALONG WITH THE APPLICATION BECAUSE ALSO THE CHURCH USED TO HAVE A USE THAT WAS REDUCED, WHICH MIGHT BE IN YOUR FAVOR. WHAT WAS THAT? WHAT'S THE NOMINAL? I AGREE. I THINK MORE INFORMATION WOULD HAVE BEEN HELPFUL. >> MY POINT WAS ALSO THAT, LIKE I SAID, DECATUR DOESN'T ACTUALLY CALL IT A TRAFFIC STUDY, IT'S CALLED A MULTI-MODAL TRANSPORTATION IMPACT STUDY. LIKE I SAID, IT'S SUPPOSED TO INCLUDE THINGS LIKE BIKING AND WALKING. I THINK IT COULD WORK IN YOUR FAVOR AS WELL. IF WE KNEW THE PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE WHO WERE WALKING AND RIDING BIKES OR CARPOOLING, LIKE YOU MENTIONED, I THINK IT COULD WORK IN YOUR FAVOR TO SAY 30 ADDITIONAL STUDENTS IS ONLY 12 ADDITIONAL CARS, [00:55:03] THEN THIS BECOMES A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT CONVERSATION. >> CORRECT, BUT THE NUMBER OF STUDENTS AT THIS MOMENT, WE ARE PLANNING TO DO IT, SUMMER CAMP, THOSE ARE STUDENTS OF OUR EXISTING PARENTS AND OUR EMPLOYEES. THIS NUMBER IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE IF WE JUST DECIDE TO CONTINUE THIS AS A SUMMER CAMP PROGRAM. >> BUT WE CAN CONTROL YOU JUST DOING IT. IF WE INCREASE THE ENROLLMENT AND YOU DECIDE TO SPLIT IT INTO TWO CLASSROOMS, THEN IT BECOMES AN EVERYDAY USE. I REALLY DO. I THINK IT COULD WORK IN YOUR FAVOR. I'M JUST SURPRISED THAT KNOWING THAT IT WAS BROUGHT UP LAST YEAR THAT IT'S NOT BEING ADDRESSED NOW. >> I THINK FOR THE NUMBER ON THE TRAFFIC STUDY, BECAUSE THE TRAFFIC STUDY BASED ON 300 CHILDREN AND 250 CHILDREN WAS OKAY, AND YOU ARE SAYING THAT WE DID NOT INCLUDE THE BIKERS AND WALKERS. I ASSUME THAT IF WE WILL ASK FOR ADDITIONAL TRAFFIC STUDY, THAT WILL BE MORE BENEFICIAL FOR US. BUT I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY DO WE HAVE TO DO ADDITIONAL TRAFFIC STUDY IF YOU ALREADY HAVE THAT NUMBER, 300 CHILDREN OR 250, IT WILL NOT CREATE THE PROBLEMS. >> THAT'S RIGHT. BUT LIKE WAS MENTIONED, IT GOES FROM D TO E. THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF CONCERN BROUGHT UP TIME AND TIME AGAIN AS TO THE FACT THAT THIS MAY BE AN INCREMENTAL CHANGE THAT 30 NOW, 30 MORE NEXT YEAR. WHETHER OR NOT THAT'S YOUR INTENT IS IRRELEVANT AT THE MOMENT, BUT HAVING THOSE NUMBERS AS TO, HEY, THESE MANY PEOPLE WALK WOULD BE VERY BENEFICIAL. >> I UNDERSTAND. WE CANNOT EXPAND IN THIS PROPERTY FOR ANY OTHER NUMBER. WE WILL HAVE TO DO ADDITION. THAT'S NOT WHAT WE ARE PLANNING. SMARTIES WILL EXPAND, BUT IN DIFFERENT LOCATIONS, BUT NOT IN THIS LOCATION. AT LEAST THIS IS OUR PLAN AT THIS MOMENT. >> BUT THE QUESTION I HAVE, I THINK YOU'RE CONFIRMING IT, THE REASON YOU HAVE AVAILABLE CAPACITY IS CHURCH TENANT MOVES OUT, YOU NOW HAVE THE AVAILABLE OCCUPANCY. JUST TO CONFIRM, THERE ARE NO OTHER SPACES THAT WILL BE ADDED TO A FUTURE OCCUPANCY ON THE EXISTING PROPERTY. THAT'S A TRUE STATEMENT? >> CORRECT. >> THAT IS A TRUE STATEMENT. THAT'S CORRECT STATEMENT, YES. >> THANK YOU. >> JUST ONE MORE POINT ON THE TRAFFIC STUDY. I THINK IT WAS BROUGHT UP THAT THE STUDY THAT WE DID WAS ONLY REFERENCING CLAIREMONT AND NOT THE CUT THROUGH TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD. THAT'S JUST ANOTHER REASON, SO MAYBE CONSIDER IT. >> TRAFFIC STUDY ONLY LOOKED AT CLAIREMONT. IS THAT CORRECT? >> LOOKS AT THE INTERSECTION. >> NO IMPACT ON CLAIREMONT WHATSOEVER. >> CLAIREMONT, 17,000 CARS A DAY, ALL THAT STUFF. >> YES TRAFFIC STUDY ALSO INCLUDES ALL THE ADDITIONAL CARS COMING TO THE CITY OF DECATUR, NOT JUST NECESSARILY JUST COMING TO OUR PROPERTY. >> OF COURSE. >> WHAT ARE YOUR PEAK TIMES FOR DROP OFF AND PICK UP? >> BETWEEN 7:30 TILL NINE O'CLOCK, FOUR O'CLOCK TILL 5:30. >> THE MORNINGS POTENTIALLY ARE VERY CONGESTED WITH CLAIREMONT STUDENTS BEING DROPPED OFF? >> CORRECT, ESPECIALLY 7:30 AND EIGHT O'CLOCK. >> THE AFTERNOON IS LESS LIKELY? >> LESS LIKELY, YES. >> BUT IT COINCIDES WITH PEOPLE COMING HOME FROM WORK? >> THAT'S CORRECT. >> ONE OF THE WRITTEN COMMENTS WE RECEIVED MENTIONED THE NUMBER OF STUDENTS THAT WERE IN THE FACILITY RIGHT FROM THE START THE STATE OF GEORGIA COME, AND IT LOOKS LIKE THE HIGHEST THAT NUMBER HAS GOTTEN TO, I'M LOOKING AT THE ONE FROM 5-15-2023, AND IT SAID THERE WERE 110 STUDENTS ON THAT DATE. CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHY YOU'RE SAYING YOU'RE AT CAPACITY WITH THIS 148 LIMIT, BUT YOU'VE NEVER HAD MORE THAN 110 ON SITE WHEN THE STATE HAS BEEN THERE. >> THIS IS A FULL-TIME PROGRAM, MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY. BUT IF PARENTS DECIDE TO TRAVEL, ALL HAVE FAMILY MEMBERS. IF THEY DECIDE NOT TO BRING THEIR CHILDREN TO CHILDCARE, THAT'S UP TO THEM. THIS PROGRAM DOESN'T RUN LIKE ANY ELEMENTARY SCHOOL, THAT CHILDREN HAVE TO BE THERE EVERY SINGLE DAY. IT'S VERY HARD FOR ME TO TELL YOU HOW MANY STUDENTS ARE GOING TO BE THERE TOMORROW OR THE DAY AFTER TOMORROW. THOSE NUMBERS ARE ALWAYS DIFFERENT. >> YOU DO HAVE 148 STUDENTS CURRENTLY? >> CORRECT, YES. >> IS THERE ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS? >> ONE MORE. SO THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF DISCUSSION AROUND THE GREEN BUFFER, [01:00:08] AND YOU SAID THAT YOU WERE PLANNING ON PLANTING SOME TREES, IF WE WERE TO APPROVE THE INCREASE IN ENROLLMENT, WOULD YOU BE ALSO WILLING TO ACCEPT ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS FOR ADDING ADDITIONAL GREEN BUFFER TO REDUCE THE NOISE AND SCREENING FOR YOUR GARAGE AND RECYCLING? >> I'M NOT SURE HOW COSTLY IT WILL BE. EVERYTHING IS EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE RIGHT NOW AND WE ARE OPERATING ON A VERY HIGH COST OF LABOR AND EVERYTHING ELSE. PLUS, WE DID A LOT OF IMPROVEMENT TO THE BUILDING, SO I CANNOT PROMISE THAT I WILL DO ADDITIONAL SCREENING AND ADD GREEN SPACE BECAUSE I MAY END UP WITH ADDITIONAL EXTREMELY HIGH BILL, AND I'M NOT SURE THAT I CAN AFFORD THAT AT THIS MOMENT. >> IS THERE ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION? AT THIS TIME, I'M GOING TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD AND THE REBUTTAL, AND OPEN UP THE PLANNING COMMISSION DISCUSSION. >> THANK YOU. >> THIS COMMISSION ISN'T HERE TO JUDGE THE QUALITY OF THE SERVICES THAT SMARTIES PROVIDES. EVERYBODY HAS REMARKED THAT THEY DO AN EXCELLENT JOB. CERTAINLY, THERE'S A DEMAND FOR THEIR SERVICES BEYOND THEIR CURRENT CAPACITY. WE'RE HERE TO APPROVE CHANGES IN LAND USE, AND IN THIS CASE, A REQUEST TO CHANGE CONDITIONS THAT THIS BODY SET WHEN WE FIRST CONSIDERED THE REQUEST TO CHANGE. AS A REVIEW TWO YEARS AGO, THE REQUEST WAS TO CHANGE THE ZONING AND THE LAND USE CATEGORY FROM RESIDENTIAL TO INSTITUTIONAL, WHICH IS A FAIRLY SIGNIFICANT REQUEST. AT THAT TIME, THE NEIGHBORS CAME OUT, THEY EXPRESSED SOME OPPOSITION. THEY WEREN'T OPPOSED TO THE OPERATION OF SMARTIES AS IT WAS AT THAT TIME. THEY WERE WORRIED THAT CHANGE TO AN INSTITUTIONAL WOULD OPEN UP THE PANDORA'S BOX FOR SOME SIGNIFICANT CHANGES TO THE CHURCH'S PROPERTY THAT THEY WOULD NOT ANTICIPATE AT THAT TIME, AND COULD HAVE A NEGATIVE IMPACT ON THE NEIGHBORHOOD. I WAS AT THAT MEETING, WE DISCUSSED THIS FULLY. WE ASKED MS. KABAT IF SHE COULD RUN HER BUSINESS WITH THE CAP OF 148 STUDENTS ACCORDING TO THE LIMIT THAT SHE RECEIVED FROM BRIGHT FROM THE START. SHE SAID THAT SHE COULD. THE NEIGHBORS FELT COMFORTABLE THAT THAT WOULD MAINTAIN THE SAME CONDITIONS THAT THEY WERE USED TO AT THAT TIME. WE REACHED A COMPROMISE. WE REACHED AN AGREEMENT THAT SATISFIED ALL THE PARTIES, AND SO THIS COMMISSION UNANIMOUSLY GRANTED THAT CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT. EIGHT MONTHS AFTER THAT, SMARTIES ACADEMY CAME TO THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION WITH VERY GRANDIOSE PLANS TO DO SIGNIFICANT CONSTRUCTION ON THE PROPERTY, DOUBLE THE SIZE OF THE STRUCTURE, AND DOUBLE THE ENROLLMENT. IT DID NOT SEEM AT THAT POINT THAT THE COMPROMISE AND AGREEMENT THAT WE HAD HASHED OUT HERE IN THE PLANNING COMMISSION, THAT WAS APPROVED BY THE CITY COMMISSION, WAS SOMETHING THAT SMARTIES WAS TRYING TO ADHERE TO. WHEN THIS PLANNING COMMISSION RECEIVED THE APPLICATION FOR THE EXPANSION, WE DENIED IT. IT WAS SO SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT FROM THE AGREEMENT WE HAD WORKED OUT ONE YEAR PREVIOUS. WE COULD NOT, IN GOOD FAITH, CONSIDER THAT. ONE YEAR LATER, WE'RE BACK CONSIDERING YET ANOTHER CHANGE, A SMALLER CHANGE AND INCREMENTAL CHANGE TO THE CONDITIONS THAT WE PLACED UPON THE PROPERTY. [01:05:03] IF THIS BODY HAD NOT APPROVED IN 2022 THE REQUEST, THE PROPERTY WOULD STILL BE ZONED RESIDENTIAL, AND STILL ONLY BE SUITABLE FOR USE BY A CHURCH CONGREGATION OR REDEVELOPMENT INTO HOMES. NOTHING HAS CHANGED SIGNIFICANTLY SINCE 2022. THAT AGREEMENT WAS INTENDED TO SATISFY THE PARTIES. I INTEND TO STAY WITH THAT AGREEMENT AND MAINTAIN IT. I EXPECT THAT IF THE COMMISSION APPROVED AN INCREASE OF 30 STUDENTS, 12 MONTHS FROM NOW, THERE'LL BE ANOTHER REQUEST AND ANOTHER MEETING TO SEE IF THAT NUMBER CAN BE INCREASED EVEN FURTHER. IT WAS SAID ONE YEAR AGO THAT THERE HAD BEEN A LACK OF FAITH IN THE GOOD INTENTIONS OF SMARTIES OWNERSHIP AFTER COMING BACK SO QUICKLY. THIS FEELS VERY MUCH LIKE DEJA VU. I DON'T FEEL LIKE STATEMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE HAVE BEEN MADE IN GOOD FAITH, AND/OR REPRESENT THE ACTUAL INTENTIONS OF THE BUSINESS. I CLOSE MY REMARKS. >> I CAN ADD TO THOSE THAT I DO UNDERSTAND NOW WHY THE BUILDING OCCUPANCY INCREASED TO 259, AND THEN THEREFORE, WHY YOUR LICENSE FOR YOUR MAX STUDENTS INCREASED TO 190. THAT MAKES SENSE TO ME. BUT TO FIGGY BACK ON WHAT GREG WAS SAYING, THE IMPACTS ON THE NEIGHBORHOOD WERE SUBSTANTIAL IN 2022, AND THEY REMAINED SUBSTANTIAL IN THERE. VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT WE'VE HEARD BEFORE, THERE'S TREES, LANDSCAPING, THERE'S THE LIGHTS, THE TRASH AND TRAFFIC, AND THE SAFETY, PARTICULARLY AT THOSE PEAK TIMES. I ALSO LEAN TOWARDS NOT INCREASING THE ENROLLMENT TO 178. >> I WOULD JUST SAY THAT AT THE TIME THAT 1408 WAS SET TO THEIR LICENSE CAPACITY, SO IF WE WERE GOING TO STICK WITH THAT, THE LICENSE CAPACITY HAS GONE UP TO 190. IT WOULD BE [OVERLAPPING] >> THERE WAS A PURPOSEFUL DECISION IN THE ORDINANCE TO LIST 148 NOT THE MAX CAPACITY OF THE LICENSE. >> THE MAX CAPACITY WAS 148 AT THE TIME? >> CORRECT. BUT THAT'S WHY 148 WAS LISTED. >> AND AT THE TIME WE WERE TOLD THEIR ENROLLMENT WAS 128. SO BY PROVIDING FOR A MAXIMUM CAPACITY OF 148, WHICH MATCHED WHAT THE BREAK FROM THE START LICENSING GAVE THEM, THAT WAS A BUFFER OF 20 STUDENTS OR 20 CHILDREN ADDITIONAL TO WHAT THEIR ENROLLMENT WAS PRIOR. >> I'M NOT AN EXPERT ON HOW BRIGHT FROM THE START DOES THE LICENSING, BUT I DID PULL UP SMARTIES LATEST AUDIT, SO TO SPEAK, LICENSING STUDY. AND THERE'S AN INTERESTING CORRELATION. THEY HAVE 35 SQUARE FOOT PER STUDENT CAPACITY, AND THEY HAVE A 25 SQUARE FOOT PER STUDENT CAPACITY. AND THE 35, IT'S 146, 148. AT 25, IT'S BASICALLY 190. I THINK IT'S BASED ON JUST A DENSER CLASSROOM. THAT'S WHERE THE 190 COMES FROM. AGAIN, I'M NOT AN EXPERT, I HAVEN'T LOOKED AT THE REGULATIONS, BUT I'M JUST LOOKING AT THIS MOST RECENT LICENSING STUDY. THEY HAVE TWO COLUMNS MAX OF 35 SQUARE FOOT PER STUDENT AND MAX OF 25 SQUARE FOOT PER STUDENT. >> AREN'T THOSE BASED ON THE AGES? >> WELL, I SAID THEY BASED ON 35 SQUARE FOOTAGE PER CHILD. >> THEY TOOK OVER SOME ADDITIONAL SPACE, WHAT USED TO BE THE CHURCH AREA, SO THE SQUARE FOOTAGE INCREASED. >> DOES THE CITY CHECK THIS TO CONFIRM THAT THEY STAY WITHIN 148 CURRENTLY ALLOWED? HOW DOES THE CITY REGULATE THIS? [LAUGHTER] >> I'M NOT SURE. AT ANY GIVEN TIME, THE FIRE MARSHAL DOES CHECK ON CAPACITY, AND THINGS LIKE THAT. [OVERLAPPING] WHEN IT WOULD COME TO ENROLLMENT, WE WOULD HAVE TO HAVE HER DOCUMENTS TO CONFIRM THOSE ENROLLMENTS. IT'S REALLY THE STATE WHO IS THE GOVERNING BODY. [01:10:04] THE STATE AND STATE FIRE MARSHAL WORK WITH THE LOCAL FIRE MARSHAL TO SET THAT CAPACITY, AND THERE'S A SQUARE FOOTAGE REQUIRED FOR INSIDE AND ALSO OUTSIDE, PER STUDENT. >> FROM FIRE MARSHAL WE HAVE 256. >> THAT'S A LIFE SAFETY EXITING. >> THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WE HAVE ENROLLMENT, BUT THEN THERE'S STILL A BUILDING CAPACITY. SO YOU HAVE TWO DIFFERENT NUMBERS GOING ON AT ANY GIVEN TIME? >> I WAS JUST CURIOUS. >> TO ME THERE IT GOES BACK TO THE SAME TRUST ISSUE. I THINK IF SHE COULD COME IN AND PROPOSE THIS AS WE'VE BEEN VERY SUCCESSFUL. WE'VE GOT A REALLY LONG WAITING LIST. A LOT OF THIS IS GOING TO BE THE SAME CARS, PEOPLE DROPPING OFF SIBLINGS, THAT KIND OF THING. IT WOULD ALMOST BE A NON-ISSUE. AND THAT'S WHAT'S TROUBLING TO ME, IS THAT THERE'S SO MUCH HISTORY THERE THAT I THINK IS CLOUDING, AND I DON'T THINK 30 EXTRA STUDENTS WILL MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE. HONESTLY, I DON'T BELIEVE IT WILL MAKE A BIG TRAFFIC DIFFERENCE EITHER. BUT IT'S JUST THE PAST HISTORY THAT IS DISTURBING IN ALL THIS. I DO UNDERSTAND WHERE THE 148 CAME FROM. THAT'S HOW MUCH YOU HAD. THE CHURCH FINALLY MOVED OUT, YOU GOT THE REST. NOW YOU CAN EITHER LEAVE THAT VACANT SPREAD OUT OR ADJUST ACCORDINGLY. SO IT'S A RELATIVELY NORMATIVE REQUEST THAT WE STARTED AT THIS POINT INSTEAD OF BEING AT 300 AND 250 AND THEN ALL OF THE BACK AND FORTH THAT'S HAPPENED. THAT PART IS OBVIOUSLY A LITTLE BIT FRUSTRATING THAT WE'RE AT THAT SPOT. NOW, I DO THINK THAT IT'S A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THING TO COME BACK AND ASK FOR AN ADDITION BECAUSE OF THE HISTORY HERE. I DON'T REALLY HAVE A FEAR OF THE GOAL POST MOVING PER SE THERE. I GUESS AT THE END OF THE DAY I FEEL LIKE IT'S A VERY COMPATIBLE USE FOR A CHURCH THAT WOULD HAVE NOT BEEN IN USE ANYMORE ONCE THE CONGREGATION DISSOLVED. AND DO I THINK THAT'S A BETTER USE THAN MAYBE A WHOLE NEW SUBDIVISION OF RESIDENTIAL? YEAH. I KIND OF DO. TO ME, I FEEL WE SHOULD BE TRYING TO PROMOTE IT AND WE WOULD BE PROMOTING IT IF THERE WAS A HIGH DEGREE OF TRUST IN THE CONVERSATION, BUT THERE'S NOT. AND THAT'S THE DILEMMA WE'RE SITTING HERE WITH. >> I HAVE TO AGREE WITH YOU. I DO NEED TO DISCLOSE TO YOU, MY CHILD WENT TO SMARTIES FIVE YEARS AGO. I CAN ATTEST TO ITS QUALITY. IT IS A FANTASTIC EARLY CHILDHOOD PROGRAM AND WE LOVED IT. BUT I AM CONCERNED WITH THIS INCREMENTAL INCREASE IN ENROLLMENT AND THE INCREASING DISTRUST AND DISSATISFACTION WITH THE NEIGHBORS. AS A RESIDENT OF DECATUR, I WOULD NOT WANT THIS BY MY HOUSE EITHER. IF I KNEW THEY WEREN'T GOING TO CONTROL THE TRAFFIC OR IMPROVE THE LANDSCAPING. I DON'T HAVE PROBLEMS WITH INCREASING THE ENROLLMENT, BUT I WOULD DO IT WITH CONDITIONS TO ADDRESS THEIR CONCERNS. >> AS WELL JUST GIVE THEM 190. BUT THEN THERE'S GOING TO BE A LOT OF CONDITIONS THAT I WOULD SEE, LIKE RESTRICT STREET PARKING TO RESIDENTS ONLY IN THAT AREA. >> WHO'S GOING TO ENFORCE THAT? >> THAT WOULD BE A WHOLE ANOTHER SET OF ORDINANCE CHANGES AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE. >> WE'RE BURDEN THE CITY WITH THAT DUTY. >> NO. THESE ARE JUST CONDITIONS I'M THINKING RESTRICT STREET PARKING, HAVE A RECYCLING DUMPSTER INSTEAD OF JUST THE STUFF THAT COMES TO THE CURVES OF TWO SEPARATE DUMPSTERS THAT'S TUCKED IN THE BACK, TREE REPLACEMENT. NIGHT LIGHTING TRESPASS DEAL, ADDRESS THAT ERIE LANDSCAPE BUFFER, HIGHER TRAFFIC CONTROL. THERE'S A WHOLE LOT OF CONDITIONS. BUT IT'D BE LIKE, YOU GET TO GO TO 190, BUT YOU GOT TO DO ALL OF THIS OTHER STUFF BECAUSE YOU GOT TO MITIGATE THE IMPACT. BUT I HEARD THE APPLICANT SAY THEY MIGHT NOT EVEN BE ABLE TO AFFORD PLANT TREES, SO THE REST OF THIS IS LIKE NULL AND VOID. I'M BASICALLY LIKE, NO. AGAIN, WE MIGHT SEE IT NEXT YEAR? >> WITH BETTER PLANS. >> NOT RIGHT NOW. >> I AGREE WITH YOU. IT'S A RELATIONSHIP THING AND IT'S A CONDITIONAL USE BECAUSE IT'S A RELATIONSHIP WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD, AND IF THERE'S A GIVE AND TAKE, AND THERE'S A RELATIONSHIP HOLDING IN GOOD FAITH, AND I THINK IT'S A DIFFERENT CONVERSATION. >> BUT I GUESS MY THOUGHT IS IF THIS HAD COME AND THEY HAD THE FULL CHURCH TWO YEARS AGO. I THINK THE REQUEST LIKELY WOULD HAVE BEEN FOR 190 AND THEY LIKELY WOULD HAVE RECEIVED REGRESSION FOR 190. FOR THAT REASON, IF WE'RE GOING TO ALLOW THEM TO INCREASE ENROLLMENT, [01:15:03] INCREASING IT INCREMENTALLY, I THINK IS THE WAY TO DO IT. I DON'T THINK INCREASING FROM 148-300 AND DOUBLING ENROLLMENT WAS THE RIGHT MOVE. BUT INCREASING BY 30 STUDENTS, I DON'T THINK IS GOING TO HAVE PERHAPS A MARGINAL IMPACT ON THE TRAFFIC. BUT I'M ON THE SAME VEIN AS YOU. I HAVE A LIST OF THINGS THAT IF WE ARE GOING TO PROPOSE THIS AS FOR APPROVAL, I WOULD HAVE A HANDFUL OF THINGS THAT I WOULD WANT TO INCLUDE AS CONDITIONS. >> IS THAT SOMETHING WE WOULD DEFER SO THEY COULD WORK THINGS OUT WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD? >> I THINK THAT WE CAN RECOMMEND WITH THE LIST OF THOSE OR VOTE, HAD A MOTION FOR THE LIST OF THOSE CONDITIONS. >> AS OPPOSED TO THE APPLICANT IN NEIGHBORHOODS. >> WE CAN HAVE AN AGENCY APPROVE JUST TO THE 1708 OR SOME DIFFERENT APPROVAL AND THEN VOTE ON THAT. >> IF WE ADD THE CONDITIONS AND IT PUTS THE BALL BACK IN THEIR COURT AS TO IS IT WORTH IT TO ADD THE GREEN BUFFER, UPDATE THE DUMPSTER. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S EASILY OUR CALL TO MAKE, WHETHER THEY WANT TO FINANCIALLY CARE. >> I THINK WE CAN PUT WHATEVER CONDITIONS WE WANT ESSENTIALLY ON A CONDITIONAL, ON THE CONDITIONAL USE, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. >> BUT I FEEL LIKE PRAGMATIC POINT OF VIEW. NORMALLY, IF YOU COME IN AND YOU ASK FOR AN EXCEPTION TO THE RULE, THERE'S A QUID PRO QUO GIVE SOMETHING IN RETURN AND IF THERE ARE NEIGHBORHOOD CONCERNS THAT COULD BE ADDRESSED, THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO WORK OUT WHAT EXACTLY THOSE ARE. WE CAN SWAG A GUESS FROM HERE BUT THAT WOULD BE A BETTER. >> SEEMS LIKE THE APPLICANT WOULD BE BETTER OFF WITH A NEIGHBORHOOD SUPPORT BASED ON THE NEGOTIATED THING VERSUS US COMING UP WITH A [INAUDIBLE]. BUT I THINK I'M AGREEING WITH YOU. >> I WOULD NOTE THAT THIS IS AN INCREASE OF 30 STUDENTS, AND WE HAVE TO ASSUME THAT IT'S NOT 30 SUMMER CAMP STUDENTS, IT'S 30 STUDENTS LESS, LESS. >> UNLESS WE CAN MAKE THAT AS PART OF THE MOTION. BUT THEN IT'S ONLY GOING TO BE ALLOWED DURING THE SUMMER CAMP TIME. BUT THE CITY DOESN'T HAVE A MECHANISM TO ENFORCE CAPACITY RIGHT NOW AND NOW WE'RE ADDING MORE BURDEN FROM THAT STANDPOINT. I'M INCLINED RIGHT NOW TO MAKE A MOTION TO RECOMMEND REJECTION OF BOTH MOTIONS. >> WE DO HAVE TO CONSIDER THEM SEPARATELY. OKAY. >> WELL IF I WERE TO MAKE A MOTION RIGHT NOW, JUST BECAUSE I DON'T NECESSARILY FEEL LIKE, I THINK AS JOE YOU POINTED OUT AND MARK, TO TRY TO GUESS WHAT ALL THE RIGHT CONDITIONS ARE THAT WOULD MAKE THE NEIGHBORHOOD SATISFIED IS US JUST GUESSING. WE MIGHT NOT GO RIGHT. WE MIGHT GO TOO FAR AND THAT WOULD BE JUST AS BAD AS UNDERSHOOTING. I THINK WE'LL FEEL LIKE WE GO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD AND JUST SAY RECOMMEND REJECTION. >> IF YOU WANT, YOU CAN'T COME BACK FOR A YEAR OR SOMETHING. >> YEAH IT'S A FULL YEAR. >> [INAUDIBLE] THAT'S UP TO THE APPLICANT TO ASK FOR A DEFERRAL. IT'S NOT UP TO US TO JUST DEFER IT. >> UNDERSTOOD. YEAH. >> WE CAN JUST TABLE THIS. >> YEAH, I HAVE A QUESTION. >> WE CAN MOTION TO THE TABLE. >> I WANT TO MAKE AN ADDITIONAL COMMENT. IS THAT ALLOWED? >> THAT'S YOUR PLEASURE IF YOU WOULD LIKE. PLEASE GO AHEAD. >> AT THIS MOMENT. AS I SAID, WE WOULD LIKE TO ADD THIS 30 STUDENTS TO HELP OUR EXISTING PARENTS FOR AFTER-SCHOOL FOR SUMMER CAMP. THEY DON'T HAVE TO CREATE ADDITIONAL TRAFFIC GOING FROM SMARTIES AND DROPPING THEIR CHILDREN SOMEWHERE ELSE AND THEN PICKING UP THEIR CHILDREN SOMEWHERE ELSE AT 3:00 AND THEN CREATE ADDITIONAL TRAFFIC. THE 30 STUDENTS AT THIS MOMENT IS FOR SUMMER CAMP. I MENTIONED THAT MAY CHANGE LATER ON THAT I CAN TURN THIS INTO THE CLASSROOM BUT IF I WILL TURN THIS INTO THE CLASSROOMS, I'M NOT SURE IF WE WILL BE TURNING THIS INTO THE CLASSROOM. WE REALLY NEED SPACE AND THIS LOCATION AND WE OUTGROW ALL THE SPACE AND WE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO DO ADDITION. FINANCIALLY, WE CANNOT DO AN ADDITION SMALLER THAN 300 CHILDREN. IT IS A QUALITY PROGRAM. I'M ASKING FOR 30 STUDENTS SO OUR EXISTING PARENTS DON'T HAVE TO DRIVE TO DIFFERENT PLACES DURING THE SUMMERTIME. >> WOULD YOU BE CONTENT IF THAT WAS A LIMITATION ON THE 30 STUDENTS USAGE? IF YOU HAD TO ASK FOR 30 NORMAL STUDENTS FULL YEAR-ROUND, IT WOULD BE BACK IN FRONT OF THE BOARD AGAIN? [01:20:02] >> I DON'T KNOW, BECAUSE THIS CAN BE A 30 STUDENTS DURING THE SUMMERTIME. ANY TIME WHEN THE SCHOOL WILL BE CLOSING, THIS WILL BE ALSO THAT TIME. YOU WANT ME TO COME EVERY SINGLE TIME AND MARK THE DATE, AND THIS IS GOING TO BE AT THIS TIME AND THIS TIME, THAT MAY BE ALSO STUDENTS FROM CLAIREMONT ELEMENTARY WHO WILL DO AFTER SCHOOL PROGRAM. WE DON'T HAVE THAT PLAN AT THIS MOMENT. THAT'S WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND. AS A BUSINESS OWNER, YOU HAVE TO MAKE THE PREDICTION AND PLAN BASED ON WHAT YOU HAVE INFORMATION AT THIS MOMENT. IT'S VERY HARD FOR ME TO TELL YOU WHAT AM I GOING TO DO. >> WHILE YOU ARE SAYING THAT IT IS FOR THAT FOR NOW, THAT IS IF WE'RE NOT APPROVING IT THAT WAY, THEN WE NEED TO BE THINKING ABOUT IT THAT THIS IS A COMPLETE EXPANSION FOR 30 IN IN THAT CONTEXT. >> I UNDERSTAND. >> THERE'S REALLY NO ENFORCEMENT MECHANISM WE CAN PUT ON THERE. IF IT HAD TO DO WITH TRAFFIC CONTROL THAT'S IN A PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY, WE COULD DO A CONDITION THAT THEY HIRE AN OFF-DUTY POLICE OFFICER TO DIRECT TRAFFIC. I DON'T THINK WE WANT TO DO THAT, BUT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S ENFORCEABLE. WHAT THEY DO WITHIN THEIR PROPERTY, IN A BUSINESS SENSE. ONCE THEY GET AN APPROVAL, THEY CAN DO ANYTHING THEY WANT. >> WE HAVE A MOTION. ARE WE READY TO MOTION? >> WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A MOTION AND THEN DECIDE WE'RE NOT READY TO VOTE. I THINK WE CAN MAKE A MOTION AND THEN FIGURE OUT WHETHER WE'RE READY TO VOTE OR NOT. >> I'M NOT SURE HOW TO DO THIS PROCEDURALLY BUT I JUST WANT TO REITERATE, I THINK IT'S IN THE APPLICANT'S BEST INTEREST TO CONFER WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND TRY AGAIN. >> OTHERWISE, I AGREE WITH A CONDITION. WE CAN'T MAKE THAT SUGGESTION SO YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE THAT AGREEMENT [INAUDIBLE]. >> I'M SORRY, I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION. >> IT SOUNDS LIKE THE TWO OPTIONS, NOT TO PUT WORDS IN YOUR MOUTH [INAUDIBLE], BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE THE TWO OPTIONS RIGHT NOW ARE EITHER TO RECOMMEND DENIAL OR TO RECOMMEND DEFERRAL FOR YOU TO COME BACK WITH A LIST OF CONDITIONS THAT WOULD BE ABLE TO APPEASE THE NEIGHBORS. THINGS LIKE THE SCREEN BUFFER, THE SCREENING, TRAFFIC CIRCULATION PLAN. >> RECOGNIZING THAT THERE HAS TO BE A BALANCE BETWEEN WHAT YOU CAN FINANCIALLY DO AND SORT OF WHAT WILL MAKE THE NEIGHBORS ALSO CONTENT. BUT I THINK THERE IS THE DANGER OF THE INCREASE IN ENROLLMENT AND NO FURTHER CONDITIONS ON IT. >> I UNDERSTAND OUR ADDITIONAL ENROLLMENT IS NOT GOING TO AFFECT ADDITIONAL TRAFFIC AND TRAFFIC IT'S NOT JUST SMARTIES TRAFFIC. IT'S ALSO TRAFFIC WHICH BELONGS TO ELEMENTARY SCHOOL, WHICH IS RIGHT THERE. WE ARE BEING BLAMED FOR ALL THIS TRAFFIC WHICH REALLY DOESN'T BELONG TO US. >> I GUESS THE POINT IS, WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO GO BACK TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD OR COME BACK TO US WITH A LIST OF CONDITIONS. WE'VE HEARD, THE SAME CONCERNS YEAR AFTER YEAR. I GUESS MY QUESTION IS WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO COME BACK WITH A LIST OF THINGS THAT YOU COULD DO TO MITIGATE THEIR CONCERNS? >> I AM HAPPY TO TALK TO MY NEIGHBORS. I NEVER HEAR THOSE COMPLAINTS WHEN I TALK TO MY NEIGHBORS DIRECTLY. I ALWAYS WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE A GOOD NEIGHBOR AND WE APPRECIATE AND RESPECT OUR NEIGHBORS. ANYTIME WHEN I HEAR THIS COMPLAINT, IT'S REALLY HERE. OUR DOORS ARE ALWAYS OPEN. WE ARE ALWAYS AVAILABLE TO TALK TO OUR NEIGHBORS AND MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE A PEACE IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. WE RUN BUSINESS THERE AND THEY ARE OUR NEIGHBORS. ALL THOSE CONCERNS WHICH YOU HAVE HERE RIGHT NOW, WE DON'T NECESSARILY GET THEM ALL THE TIME. OUR NEIGHBORS DO NOT COMPLAIN TO US AND THEY DO NOT TALK TO US ABOUT THOSE ISSUES. >> WELL, I THINK THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY NOW THAT THEY HAVE AIRED SOME OF THOSE IN WRITING TO MAKE THAT CONVERSATION. I THINK, ADDITIONAL INFORMATION, MORE GRANULAR WITH THE TRAFFIC STUDY IN THE NEW CONFIGURATION. MAYBE SOME FACTS ABOUT HOW MUCH TRAFFIC IS DUE TO CLAIREMONT VERSUS SMARTIES. SOME ACTUAL FACTS FOR THE COMMISSION TO SORT OF BE ABLE TO EVALUATE WOULD BE HELPFUL. BUT BUT I DO THINK THERE HAVE BEEN STATED CONCERNS ABOUT PARKING LOT LIGHTING AND OTHER THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN PUT ON THE TABLE, THAT THERE COULD BE IMPROVEMENTS MADE THAT MIGHT HELP BUILD THAT BRIDGE. I DON'T KNOW. I CAN'T SUGGEST THAT. >> WE WILL BE HAPPY TO HELP WITH THOSE PROBLEMS. WE JUST NEVER HEAR ABOUT THOSE PROBLEMS. THOSE PROBLEMS COME HERE TO THIS MEETINGS. >> I THINK WHAT WE'RE SUGGESTING IS MAYBE YOU TAKE A MONTH [01:25:02] AND GO HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS AND MAYBE COME BACK. >> OR ALTERNATIVELY, I THINK IT SOUNDS LIKE POTENTIALLY RECOMMEND DENIAL TO THE CITY COMMISSION AND THEN JUST TRY YOUR LUCK THERE WITH THEM. >> IT WOULD BE UP TO YOU TO INITIATE THAT CONVERSATION WITH THE NEIGHBORS IF YOU TOOK THE DEFERRAL. >> YOU WOULD REQUEST A DEFERRAL NOW, CORRECT? >> CORRECT. >> THERE'S A CIVIC ASSOCIATION THAT CAN ANSWER THAT. >> IF WE REQUESTED RIGHT NOW, SO WHAT'S OUR NEXT STEP? WE ARE COMING HERE NEXT MONTH? >> YOU'RE RIGHT, WITH A LIST OF THINGS THAT YOU COULD DO TO MITIGATE SOME OF THEIR CONCERNS. >> TO HAVE THE CONVERSATION WITH THE NEIGHBORS, HEAR THEIR CONCERNS. IN THAT CONVERSATION, FIND THAT POINT WHERE EVERYONE IS IN AGREEMENT ABOUT YOUR PLANS AND WHAT THE NEIGHBORS NEED FROM SMARTIES ACADEMY, AND THEN ASSUMING THAT YOU'VE REACHED THAT POINT, THEN YOU COME BACK IN FRONT OF THIS COMMISSION. >> WE HAD THOSE CONVERSATIONS WITH OUR NEIGHBORS. THEY DIDN'T AGREE TO THE NUMBER 300. THEY WERE OKAY WHEN WE WERE DROPPING TO 250. I'M VERY SURPRISED RIGHT NOW THAT OUR NEIGHBORS ARE NOT OPEN TO ADDITIONALLY 30 CHILDREN RIGHT NOW. I'M OPEN TO TALK TO OUR NEIGHBORS. I'M WILLING TO TALK TO OUR NEIGHBORS. OUR GOAL WAS TO HELP OUR PARENTS DURING THIS SUMMER TIME, AND IF WE DEFER THIS APPLICATION ONE MORE MONTH, THEN WE ARE NOT ABLE TO HELP OUR EXISTING PARENTS AND OUR TEACHERS, WHICH WE COMMUNICATED WITH THEM IN JANUARY, THAT THIS WILL TAKE SOME TIME TO GET THE APPROVAL. WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON THOSE SINCE DECEMBER. >> I WAS AT THE MEETING ONE YEAR AGO. I DO NOT RECALL ANY NEIGHBORS COMING IN SAYING THAT THEY WERE PART OF A MEETING WITH YOU AND WERE CONVINCED THAT 255 WAS AN APPROPRIATE NUMBER. YOU DID BRING MANY OF YOUR PARENTS WHO CAN ATTEST TO HOW GOOD THE QUALITY OF SMARTIES CHILDCARE IS, BUT I DON'T RECALL ANY PEOPLE LIVING IN THE PROXIMITY WHO SPOKE OUT IN AGREEMENT WITH THE NUMBER 255. >> I JUST REMEMBER NEIGHBORS ASKED ME IF I CAN GO WITH THE NUMBER LOWER, THAT THEY WILL BE OKAY WITH IT. THEN LOOKING INTO CONSTRUCTION COST, WE WERE TRYING TO CALCULATE THAT 250 WAS REALLY MINIMUM AT THIS TIME, WHICH WE COULD DO. NOW WE COULD NOT EVEN DO 250 CHILDREN WITH THE CONSTRUCTION COST. WE HAD MULTIPLE MEETINGS WITH OUR NEIGHBORS, BUT OUR NEIGHBORS MANY TIMES JUST HEARD US AND JUST GAVE US SOME SUGGESTIONS AND CONSTANTLY ASKED US TO DO MORE OF CERTAIN THINGS, BUT NOT NECESSARILY EXACTLY WHAT THEY WANT FROM US, SO THEY WILL APPROVE IT. IT WAS CONSTANTLY LIKE, WE DON'T KNOW, CAN YOU LOWER THE NUMBER? WE LOWER THE NUMBER. IT WAS STILL NOT OKAY. WITH RESPECT TO OUR NEIGHBORS, WE TOTALLY DECIDED NOT TO GO TOWARDS EXPANSION FOR 250 STUDENTS AT THIS MOMENT. >> BUT THIS WOULD CONSTITUTE AN EXPANSION OF 30 STUDENTS ON PAPER. NO, I DON'T MEAN A PHYSICAL EXPANSION, I MEAN A- >> ENROLLMENT. >> ENROLLMENT SLASH REVENUE EXPANSION. THERE, IN THEORY, SHOULD BE SOME OPPORTUNITY TO PERHAPS BUILD THOSE BRIDGES. IT MAY HELP TO GET SOME OF YOUR NEIGHBORS TO SUPPORT IT. MORE INFORMATION ON THE TRAFFIC IMPACT, ALL OF THOSE KINDS OF THINGS COULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE. >> I DO WANT TO POINT OUT ONE THING, THOUGH, AND THAT IS THAT WE DO HAVE TO PUBLICLY ADVERTISE FOR BOTH THIS MEETING WHICH WE'VE HELD AND THE CITY COMMISSION MEETING THAT'S HELD NEXT WEEK. IF IT DOESN'T STAY IN THAT CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER, WE ACTUALLY HAVE TO RE ADVERTISE FOR CITY COMMISSION, AND WE COULD NOT DO THAT IN THE TIME FRAME OF JUST ONE MONTH, WHICH MEANS IT WOULD PUT IT TO A JUNE MEETING TO GET THE LEGAL ADVERTISEMENT BACK IN THE PAPER. IF YOU WERE THE DECIDING BOARD, IT WOULD BE DIFFERENT BECAUSE IT WOULD COME BACK TO YOU, BUT SEEING HOW IT'S A RECOMMENDATION THAT WILL PUT IT BACK TO JUNE. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS THAT FIRST. THIS IS NOT JUST COME BACK IN MAY, WE HAVE TO RESTART THAT PROCESS FOR A DEFERRAL. >> SURE. I ALSO HEARD THAT EVEN IF WE COULD DO IT IN A MONTH, THAT'S STILL TOO LATE. AT THIS POINT I'M GOING TO MAKE A MOTION TO RECOMMEND DENIAL OF THE ORDINANCE. >> LET'S START WITH THE ZONING ORDINANCE. >> THAT'S WHAT I WAS GOING TO DO. RECOMMEND DENIAL OF A MODIFICATION TO THE ZONING COMMISSION FOR 465 CLAIREMONT AVENUE, DESIGNATED AS O-24-Z-XX. [01:30:09] >> DO WE HAVE A SECOND? >> I WILL SECOND THAT MOTION. >> ALL THOSE IN FAVOR. >> MOTION IS TO DENY. >> I HAVE FURTHER DISCUSSION. >> YEAH, YOU HAVE FURTHER DISCUSSION. >> SORRY, ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? >> JUST ONE FINAL POINT THAT BY MAKING A MOTION TO DENY, WE'RE EFFECTIVELY PUSHING THIS BACK A FULL YEAR, WHEREAS IF THE MOTION WERE TO TABLE, SURE IT MAY NOT BE. >> NO, THAT'S NOT TRUE. THE FINAL DECISION IS BY CITY COMMISSION. YOU'RE JUST A RECOMMENDATION. IT STILL GOES TO THEM. IF THEY DO MAKE THE MOTION TO DENY, THEN IT'S ONE YEAR. IF SOMETHING DIFFERENT OCCURS [INAUDIBLE]. >> COULD APPEAL TO THE CITY COMMISSION TO TABLE IT AND ALLOW FOR DISCUSSIONS WITH THE NEIGHBORS AND TRY TO COME TO SOME BETTER UNDERSTANDING. >> THEN WE COULD PROPOSE THAT AS WELL WITH OUR RECOMMENDATIONS AS WELL. AS I SAYING, IF WE GO TO THE CITY COMMISSION, THE CITY COMMISSION SEES OUR RECOMMENDATION AND DENIES, IT'S A FULL YEAR, WHICH I UNDERSTAND THAT A MONTH IS [INAUDIBLE]. >> THE REASON I'M JUST SAYING TO GO AHEAD AND RECOMMEND DENIAL IS BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN ASKING THE APPLICANT, HEY, DO YOU WANT TO DEFER? WE'RE NUDGING AS MUCH AS WE CAN, AND I HAVEN'T HEARD THE APPLICANT SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT? I'M GOING TO SCHEDULE A MEETING WITH THE NEIGHBORS. I'M GOING TO GET A FACILITATOR TO BE THERE TO HELP US COME TO SOME UNDERSTANDING OF HOW WE CAN BE ALL GOOD NEIGHBORS TO ONE ANOTHER. I DIDN'T HEAR THAT. I JUST HEARD, THEY NEVER COME AND TELL ME ANYTHING'S WRONG. WELL, WE JUST HEARD A WHOLE LOT AND WE READ A LOT OF WHAT'S WRONG. I DIDN'T HEAR THAT. THAT'S WHY I'M JUST, LOOK, LET'S JUST RECOMMEND DENIAL AND THEN LET THE CITY COMMISSION POTENTIALLY TABLE IT. THAT'S A GOOD POINT. THEY COULD TABLE IT, AND THEN WE COULD DEAL WITH THIS IN OCTOBER, WHICH WOULD BE FINE. GIVE THE APPLICANT TIME TO DO THAT. >> BUT IT WOULDN'T COME BACK TO US IN OCTOBER? >> [INAUDIBLE]. >> WELL, IT WOULD COME BACK TO THEM. I'M SORRY, I'M STILL A LITTLE NEW. I DON'T KNOW THEIR PLEASURE, BUT I HAVE WORKED IN OTHER JURISDICTIONS. THEY WOULD HAVE TO MAKE THE MOTION TO SEND IT BACK TO YOU, AND I'M SURE THEY WOULD DO THAT THE SAME WAY. BUT I'M NOT SURE, THEY COULD JUST HANDLE THAT DISCUSSION AT THEIR LEVEL BECAUSE IT'S BEEN RECOMMENDED THERE. >> THEY ARE INSIDER ANYWAY. >> I ALSO THINK THERE'S SOME PREFERENCE NOT TO DEFER. I VAGUELY REMEMBER ANGELA SAYING ON ANY APPLICATION OF THIS ONE SPECIFIC OR WAS THAT FOR SPECIFIC ACTION? >> I THINK IN THE CASES WHERE WE ALLOWED A DEFERRAL, THERE WERE SOME VERY SPECIFIC THINGS THAT WERE BROUGHT UP IN THE MEETING THAT IT SOUNDED LIKE COULD BE WORKED OUT BY REVISING A PLAN IF WE WERE CONSIDERING A VERY SPECIFIC PLAN FOR DEVELOPMENT. IN THIS CASE, WE'RE NOT CONSIDERING A PLAN WHERE WE'RE CONSIDERING JUST CHANGING THE CONDITION, AND POTENTIALLY PUTTING OTHER CONDITIONS ON. >> THE OTHER THING IS IF WE JUST STRAIGHT RECOMMEND DENIAL, THEN WE DON'T GET TO SEND OUR LIST OF CONDITIONS ALONG TO THE CITY COMMISSION EITHER, BECAUSE YOU DON'T GET CONDITIONS OF THE DENIAL. >> THEY'LL BE ABLE TO READ THEIR DRAFT MINUTES. >> ARGUMENTS. >> IT'S A LITTLE CLEANER PRESENTATION. >> JUST SEND THEM THE AUDIO RECORDING. HELP THEM SLEEP. >> I THINK WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. I THINK WE HAVE TO GET A VOTE. >> ARE THERE ANY OTHER DISCUSSIONS ON THE MOTION THAT'S ON THE TABLE THAT HAS BEEN SECONDED? ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE. >> AYE. >> OPPOSED? ANY ABSTENTIONS? MOTION PASSES. NOW WE MOVE ON TO THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT ORDINANCE O-25-Z-YY. >> I'LL GO AHEAD AND MAKE THE SAME MOTION TO RECOMMEND DENIAL OF THE MODIFICATION OF THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR THE DAYCARE USE AT 465 CLAIREMONT AVENUE. >> DO WE HAVE A SECOND? >> SECOND. >> ANY DISCUSSION? ALL THOSE IN FAVOR? OPPOSED? ANY ABSTENTION? MOTION PASSES. [01:35:04] THE ONLY OTHER THING ON THE AGENDA IS OUR NEXT MEETING IS MAY 14TH. [IV.a. Next meeting: May 14, 2024.] WE DO NOT HAVE ANY PRIVATE APPLICATIONS, BUT WE MAY HAVE SOME TEXT AMENDMENTS. I WILL LET YOU KNOW IF WE KEEP THAT MEETING DATE OR NOT HERE SHORTLY. >> OKAY. >> MEETING ADJOURNED. * This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.