[00:00:06]
[I. Call to Order]
THIS IS THE REGULAR MEETING OF THE DECATUR PLANNING COMMISSION FOR TUESDAY, MARCH 10TH, 2026.MY NAME IS JOHN MCFARLAND, AND I WILL BE CHAIRING THE COMMISSION THIS EVENING FOR A PERIOD OF TIME.
THIS IS A SEVEN MEMBER COMMISSION OF DECATUR RESIDENTS APPOINTED BY THE CITY COMMISSION.
THE COMMISSION HEARS APPLICATIONS FOR LAND USE AND ZONING CHANGES, CONDITIONAL USE PERMITS, SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS AND LAND SUBDIVISIONS. IT ALSO REVIEWS AND RECOMMENDS CHANGES TO THE CITY ZONING REGULATIONS AND FUTURE LAND USE PLANS.
APPLICANTS ARE GIVEN TIME TO PRESENT THEIR CASE WHEN THEIR APPLICATION IS CALLED.
PLEASE BE SURE TO STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS BEFORE BEGINNING YOUR REMARCS.
OPPOSING PARTIES ARE NOT GRANTED AN OPPORTUNITY FOR REBUTTAL.
WHILE WE DO NOT FORMALLY LIMIT THE TIME FOR MULTIPLE PARTIES TO SPEAK IN SUPPORT OR OPPOSITION TO AN APPLICATION, WE DO ASK SPEAKERS TO REFRAIN FROM SPENDING TIME REPEATING ARGUMENTS THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN PRESENTED.
INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS ARE ALSO ASKED TO BE CONCISE AS THEY CAN WHEN MAKING THEIR REMARCS.
ONCE ALL INTERESTED PARTIES HAVE BEEN HEARD, WE WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC MEETING FOR THE APPLICATION.
PLEASE REFRAIN FROM ANY APPLAUSE OR DIALOG DURING OR AFTER PRESENTATIONS.
PLEASE SHOW THE SAME RESPECT TO ANYONE WHO IS SPEAKING THAT YOU WOULD EXPECT TO RECEIVE YOURSELF.
WE ARE SUPPORTED THIS EVENING BY OUR PLANNER KC KRZIC.
TONY, TONY LEUNG. KEN WEST. JASON FRIEDLANDER.
MARC BRAMBRUT I'M KC. [LAUGHTER]. WE HAVE AILEEN DE LA TORRE AILEEN WONDERFUL. ALRIGHT. THAT'S ITEM NUMBER 1. ITEM NUMBER 2 IS MOVING TO ELECTION OF OFFICERS STARTING WITH CHAIR.
[II. Election of Officers]
DO I HAVE ANY NOMINATIONS FOR THE POSITION OF CHAIR? I WOULD NOMINATE JASON. I SECOND THAT. ANY OTHER NOMINATIONS FOR CHAIR IF HE'S WILLING.SO. SO YOU'LL JUST CALL FOR THE VICE CHAIR? VICE CHAIR IS NEXT.
SO, DO I HAVE A MOTION FOR A NOMINATION FOR VICE CHAIR? I NOMINATE MARC. SECOND. ALL RIGHT. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? IF NOT, THEN WE CAN VOTE. ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE.
AYE. ALL OPPOSED? AND THE MOTION PASSES.
[III. Approval of Minutes]
[LAUGHTER]. WE DON'T HAVE ANY UNFINISHED OR NEW BUSINESS, SO. OH, SORRY.SO. IF EVERYBODY'S HAD A CHANCE TO REVIEW THE MINUTES.
WE CAN I CAN TAKE A MOTION FOR THE APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES FROM OCTOBER 14TH, 2025? SO MOVED. SECOND ALL RIGHT. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. ALL OPPOSED? ANY ABSTENTIONS? OH.
ALL RIGHT. NOW, THERE'S NO UNFINISHED BUSINESS OR NEW BUSINESS, SO WE MOVE ON TO OTHER BUSINESS.
[VI.a. Decatur Streetscape Guidelines and UDO Text Amendments.]
DECATUR STREETSCAPE GUIDELINES AND UDO TEXT AMENDMENTS.AND THEN I'LL TAKE ALL THE COMMENTS. I KNOW I'VE GOT SOME FROM JOHN.
I TRIED TO GET THE ENGINEERS TO ANSWER SOME QUESTIONS QUICKLY AS I COULD GET THEM.
SO YOU ALL MAY HAVE SEEN SOME RESPONSES, BUT I CAN GO BACK OVER THEM.
[00:05:03]
THIS IS ACTUALLY UPDATING PRIMARILY THE DESIGN GUIDELINES, WHICH ARE ESSENTIALLY A HANDBOOK OR A MANUAL THAT WE LET DEVELOPERS USE. ALL OF THE REVIEWERS STILL ACTUALLY FROM ENGINEERING TO TRANSPORTATION TO STORMWATER TO ARBORIST TO ZONING TO PUBLIC WORKS, STILL ACTUALLY REVIEW EVERYTHING IN ACCORDANCE, BUT THIS IS JUST KIND OF SETTING FORTH THE STANDARDS BY WHICH THEY HAVE TO APPLY TO THEIR DEVELOP MORE OR AT THE SAME TIME, IF THE CITY IS GOING THROUGH, THEN THEY WOULD FOLLOW THEIR OWN STANDARDS.SO I KNOW YOU GOT SOME HANDOUTS BUT I'M JUST GOING TO QUICKLY GO OVER THEM.
SO, YOU KNOW, WHY ARE THESE STREETSCAPES IMPORTANT? AND I THINK YOU ALL PROBABLY HAVE HEARD THIS BEFORE.
KNOW IT. EASE OF ACCESSIBILITY. SAFETY. SEPARATION BETWEEN VEHICLES AND PEDESTRIANS.
SPACE FOR LOUNGING, RIGHT? IF YOU'RE GOING OUT TO A RESTAURANT AND YOU HAVEN'T MET ALL YOUR FRIENDS, OR YOU'RE MEETING THEM IN DOWNTOWN, YOU COULD HAVE SOMEWHERE TO STAND OR SIT OR JUST GATHER AND CHAT.
IT ALSO CREATES THE DISTINCTIVE DESIGN WHEN YOU KNOW, YOU'RE IN DOWNTOWN DECATUR AS YOU'LL SEE, LIKE OAKHURST HAS SOME DIFFERENT LIGHTING STRUCTURES AND SO DO THE MIXED-USE AREA ON EAST COLLEGE.
AND ONCE AGAIN, IT KIND OF DRIVES ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, RIGHT? SO IF YOU CAN WALK TO IT, YOU CAN SEE IT, YOU CAN WALK INTO IT, YOU CAN INTERACT, YOU CAN SPEND MONEY.
SO I'M JUST GOING TO KIND OF SIMPLY GO OVER A LITTLE BIT OF THE HIGHLIGHTS.
I THINK WE ALL KNOW THE STREETSCAPE IS IN THE RIGHT OF WAY.
AND THEN ESSENTIALLY THAT'S WHERE THE PRIVATE PROPERTY STARTS.
USUALLY THE BUILDINGS ARE BROUGHT UP TO THAT LIKE ZERO LOT LINE, BUT THEY AREN'T ALWAYS.
WE DO HAVE SOME OLDER BUILDINGS THAT STILL HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF A SETBACK.
SO YOU MAY HAVE A GRASS AREA OR ANYTHING BETWEEN THAT.
SO WITHIN THE GUIDELINES WE HAVE SOME ENGINEERING UPDATES AND REALLY THOSE ARE TO INCLUDE MORE ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY OPTIONS LIKE THE BIOSWALES AND PERVIOUS PAVERS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
SO WHEN THE ENGINEERING TEAM IS WORKING WITH THE DEVELOPERS, THEY'RE ACTUALLY DEFINING DEPENDING ON WHAT'S GOING ON ON THE STREET AS IT EXISTS, AS THE DEVELOPMENT, AS ALL THE INFRASTRUCTURE UNDERGROUND IS HOW THEY DETERMINE WHAT NEEDS TO BE BUILT AND TO WHAT THE SPECIFICATION IS.
SO THIS ACTUALLY SOLIDIFIES WHAT ENGINEERING HAS BEEN REQUESTING OF THEM THE ENTIRE TIME.
SO THERE'S NO SURPRISES. THESE AREN'T REALLY SPECIFIC CHANGES.
WE'RE NOT REALLY CHANGING THE DESIGN. WE ARE TWEAKING THE STREET FURNITURE.
LIKE I SAID, A LOT OF THESE MORE SUSTAINABLE PRODUCTS AND ECO-FRIENDLY PRODUCTS ARE BEING USED.
THEY'RE COMING ON THE MARKET CONSTANTLY. SO YOU KNOW, THERE'S SEVERAL THEY CAN USE OUT THERE.
WE DO HAVE OUR ARBORIST UPDATES. SO THEY WERE ABLE TO GET A LITTLE MORE SQUARE FOOTAGE INTO THE ACTUAL PLANTING AREA. I THINK YOU ALL HAVE KIND OF SEEN IT.
THE IDEA IS THAT THE ROOTS AREN'T GOING TO GROW UP AND INTO THE SYSTEMS, SO THEY'LL KIND OF BE UNDERGROUND SYSTEMS. I THINK YOU'VE SEEN THEM IN VARIOUS AREAS WHERE THE ROOTS WE HAVE ALL NEW PLANTINGS AND SPECIES SELECTIONS IN THERE UPGRADED.
WE DO HAVE SOME CHANGES TO THE STREET FURNITURE.
SO WE HAVE THE DOWNTOWN AREA WILL HAVE A NEW LED LIGHTING POLE.
YOU CAN ACTUALLY SEE IT HERE IN CITY HALL. I THINK THEY PUT THE ONES UP FRONT ALREADY.
THERE'S ALSO ONE IN THE BACK. SO YOU CAN SEE THOSE HOW THOSE ARE DIFFERENT AND DESIGNED.
THERE IS A CHANGE IN THE SEATING, IN THE TRASH RECEPTACLE AND IN THE BIKE RACK.
SO JUST BRINGING IT UP TO THE NEW STANDARDS AND THE DESIGN AS YOU SEE IT ACROSS THE BOARD.
SO KIND OF THE HIGHLIGHTS. CAN I RAISE A COUPLE QUESTIONS? SURE. OKAY. FIRST OF ALL, WHO PREPARED THESE REVISIONS? SO WE HAD BETWEEN PUBLIC WORKS AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT.
[00:10:06]
SO ENGINEERS, ARBORISTS, ZONING, SANITATION THERE WAS ACTUALLY A COMMITTEE OUT OF THE CITY MANAGER'S OFFICE.AND THEN WE WORKED WITH AN OUTSIDE CONSULTANT TO GET THE DESIGNS UPDATED AND DRAWN.
I WAS READING THROUGH IT AND I JUST LIKE TO JUST MAKE TWO SUGGESTIONS.
SURE. FIRST, THE BENCH. CAN WE NOT HAVE A METAL, METAL BENCH? SO I SUSPECTED THAT MIGHT COME UP. THAT IS THE SELECTION THAT WAS MADE BY THE TEAM.
SURE. [LAUGHTER]. OKAY. I DON'T WANT TO BE. I GOT IT.
YOU CAN IF YOU CAN GRILL STEAK ON IT. [LAUGHTER].
I KNOW THE PREVIOUS ONE IS VERY OLD FASHIONED AND IT'S, YOU KNOW, HAS KIND OF THE PLASTIC BENCH LIKE FAKE WOOD ON THERE AND ALL THAT. SURE. SO BUT I THINK THE SELECTION WOULD BE BEST NOT TO HAVE METAL BENCH.
OKAY. THE SECOND COMMENT IS THE UNDERSTORY TREES.
OKAY. I THINK FOR STREETSCAPES AND AS A LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT, I THINK IT'S GREAT TO HAVE GROUND COVER AND ALSO THE TREES LIMBED UP, BUT NOT HAVING MULTI-TRUNK UNDERSTORY TREE TO BLOCK THE VIEWS.
OKAY. BLOCKING THE VIEW OF MOTORISTS, CYCLISTS.
I'M A CYCLIST MYSELF AND BLOCK THE VIEW OF PEDESTRIANS.
OKAY. THAT'S JUST ANOTHER SUGGESTION. PERFECT.
I HAVE JUST A COUPLE OF REALLY MINOR THINGS THAT I FOUND HERE IN THE ORDINANCE, IN THE ORDINANCE, YOU'RE IN THE ORDINANCE, YOU'RE IN THE UDO IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT THAT, YEAH.
SIDEWALK, BUT AND THAT ONE, IT SAYS PAVEMENT, LIKE ENGLAND.
RIGHT. AND THAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE THE DESIGN FOR THAT.
YES. AND ACTUALLY CURRENTLY AS IT SITS, WE'RE NOT MODIFYING THAT SECTION.
THE ATTORNEYS REVIEWED THE UPDATES, ALSO IN THE ALLEY, I THINK. AYE. AND I THINK THE EASEMENT AND THE TRAVEL LANE GOT REVERSED.
I'LL LOOK AT IT. ONE'S WIDER AND ONE'S NARROWER.
I THINK THEY'RE FLIPPED. I'LL LOOK AT IT. THOSE ARE PRETTY MUCH NO PROBLEM. I'VE GOT YOU. SO JUST AN OVERALL QUESTION.
SOME OF THESE CHANGES HERE. I TALKED TO MY NEIGHBORS THERE.
THEY'RE CONCERNED ABOUT AFFORDABILITY OF DECATUR.
SURE. DO ANY OF THESE CHANGES INCUR SUBSTANTIAL EXTRA COSTS FOR DEVELOPERS? OR IS IT. SO I DO NOT HAVE THAT INFORMATION. I BELIEVE THAT WILL BE DISCUSSED AT THE CITY COMMISSION.
I BELIEVE THEY HAVE ASKED THE CONSULTANTS TO ACTUALLY PRICE OUT WHAT THE CHANGES WOULD SEE IN A DIFFERENCE AND WHAT THEY WOULD COST TO BEGIN WITH. THAT'LL BE I DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO THAT INFORMATION, BUT I'VE HEARD THAT COMMENT BEFORE. HOT METAL BENCHES ARE MORE EXPENSIVE THAN THE PLASTIC ONES.
WELL, I'VE SHARED MY COMMENTS WITH EVERYBODY AHEAD OF TIME, KC.
I HAVE THEM. YEAH, I KNOW THAT 8.2.2 IS NOT CURRENTLY IN WHAT'S PROPOSED TO GO IN FRONT OF THE CITY COMMISSION, BUT WHAT'S IN THERE IS NOT CONSISTENT WITH 8.2.3.
SO IN MY OPINION I THINK WE SHOULD INCLUDE IT AND WE SHOULD MAKE IT MAKE IT CONSISTENT.
SO THE UNIFORM DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE IS INDEED UNIFORM.
NOT TO BE YOU KNOW I MEAN I MEAN LIKE FOR EXAMPLE, IN THE RESIDENTIAL NARROW, IT SAYS SIDEWALK SIX-FOOT MINIMUM PLANTING AREA, SIX-FOOT MINIMUM 8.2.3.D SHOWS RIGHT NOW WHAT'S PROPOSED FIVE-FEET AND TWO-FEET.
SURE, I'LL LOOK AT IT OKAY. SO LIKE WHEN YOU SAY YOU'RE GOING TO LOOK AT IT LIKE, DO YOU THINK YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE THE CHANGE OR NOT? I CAN'T ANSWER THAT. LIKE IT'S A WHOLE COMMITTEE AND THE ATTORNEYS THAT HAVE TO REVIEW EVERYTHING.
[00:15:05]
OKAY. YEAH. SO, YOU KNOW, SO, YOU KNOW, I MADE THOSE EDITS IN A TWO, TWO.AND THEN THE OTHER THING. THAT'S CORRECT, I HAVE THEM YEAH. INCONSISTENCIES. AND THEN 8.2.3. FOR EXAMPLE, UNDER THE NEW OR IN THE TABLE STREETSCAPE TABLE THAT HAS STREET TYPE.
SO AGAIN, TO MAKE CONSISTENCY, USE THE STREET TYPES THAT ARE IN 8.2.2.
SO REALLY THE TABLE OF 8.2.3.D COULD BE SIMPLIFIED TO JUST SAY ZONING DISTRICT AND DROP STREET TYPE.
THAT'S ANOTHER WAY TO SOLVE THAT. SURE. BUT. AND THEN I CAN KEEP GOING.
I KNOW SOME OF THIS I SHARED ON SUNDAY, SOME I SHARED EARLIER TODAY, BUT THE CHANGE IN PARAGRAPH F OF 8.2.3 CHANGES, IT CHANGES IT FROM THE REQUIRED STREETSCAPE, IMPROVEMENTS TO PEDESTRIAN CONNECTIONS. AND AS WRITTEN RIGHT NOW, IT WOULD REQUIRE A FIVE FOOT SIDEWALK FROM THE DOOR OF EVERY BUILDING THROUGHOUT THE CITY TO THE STREET, AND THAT INCLUDES SINGLE FAMILY HOMES, WHICH I THINK IS ABOVE AND BEYOND WHAT WE SHOULD HAVE IN THE CITY OF DECATUR. LIKE NOT MANY HOUSES HAVE A SIDEWALK TO THE STREET, MUCH LESS A FIVE FOOT SIDEWALK.
WE'LL LOOK AT IT I THINK IT WAS INTENDED TO BE PUBLICLY ACCESSIBLE BUILDINGS, NOT PRIVATE BUILDINGS.
I MEAN. THE WAY IT'S ENFORCED, IT'S COMMERCIAL TOWNHOUSES, THINGS LIKE THAT.
SO EVEN IF SOMETHING NEW I CAN'T I'D HAVE TO LOOK AT THE ZONING CODE, BUT IF THERE WAS SOME TYPE OF I THINK IT WOULD ALLOW SINGLE FAMILY ATTACHED.
IN THE DOWNTOWN IN A C2 DISTRICT WITH BUT BUT THIS PARAGRAPH IS NOT LIMITED TO THE DOWNTOWN DISTRICT.
I UNDERSTAND. OKAY. I MEAN, ARE WE SUPPOSED TO, ARE WE SUPPOSED TO ACT ON THIS? WELL, IS THIS FOR INFORMATION.
COMMISSION. SO, I MEAN, SO THAT WE ACTUALLY DO TAKE ACTION ON IT. AND BECAUSE I THINK IT'S, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT ENOUGH THAT THE CITY COMMISSION KNOWS THAT WE AS A PLAN. IF, IF YOU ALL AGREE MAYBE IT'S JUST ME.
I WANT THESE CHANGES TO BE MADE SO THAT WE HAVE THE CONSISTENCY WITHIN THE UDO ARE WE ABLE TO TAKE ACTION ON SOMETHING THAT'S UNDER OTHER BUSINESS ON OUR AGENDA? YEAH SO THIS ISN'T ACTUALLY A PURVIEW OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION BECAUSE IT IS SPELLED OUT IN A SECTION.
SO IT'S NOT COVERED BY THE GEORGIA PLANNING ACT.
WOULD IT MAKE MORE SENSE FOR JOHN TO SEND HIS COMMENTS DIRECTLY TO THAT COMMISSION TOO? SO I DO HAVE THEM. I'VE TAKEN COMMENTS FROM THE LET'S SEE IF I GET IT RIGHT.
AND SO ALL OF THOSE WILL MOVE FORWARD. I HAVE A QUESTION.
SURE. IF YOU'RE DONE I STILL HAVE STREETSCAPE GUIDELINES TO GO OVER, BUT.
OH, WELL, I'LL TAKE A I'LL TAKE A PAUSE. I HAVE A QUESTION.
SO WE HAVE STREET GUIDELINES THAT GO FROM THE CURB TO THE FURNISHING AREA TO THE SIDEWALK RIGHT? I THINK YOU MADE A COMMENT EARLIER THAT THAT'S WHERE THE BUILDING STARTS.
[00:20:08]
AND THE WAY MOST PEOPLE BUILD THE NEW DEVELOPMENT IS THEY COME UP TO THE PROPERTY LINE.SO WE JUST UNDERSTAND THAT TO BE A CONTINUATION OF THAT.
I FEEL LIKE THERE'S OTHER AREAS WHERE IT'S JUST NOT AND I THINK A LOT OF CITIES, AUSTIN DOES THIS REALLY WELL.
SO THERE'S LIKE A REALLY INTENTIONAL PUBLIC SPACE FOR OUTDOOR SEATING, FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, FOR ACTIVATION. I THINK THAT'S EITHER PART OF THE STREETSCAPE GUIDELINES OR CONSIDERED BECAUSE I DON'T THINK FOR A NEW DEVELOPMENT GOING FORWARD, I DON'T THINK WE'RE REALLY REQUIRING A DEVELOPER TO REALLY BE THOUGHTFUL ABOUT THE SPACE BETWEEN THE SIDEWALK AND THE BUILDING. SO THAT IS SOMETHING THAT'S HELD WITHIN THE ZONING STANDARDS. SO LIKE, IF THEY HAVE A ZONING THAT ALLOWS THEM TO PUSH THE BUILDING BACK AND WANT TO HAVE OUTDOOR SEATING, THERE'S NOTHING THAT PROHIBITS THAT. IT JUST KEEPS IT OUT OF THE STREETSCAPE AND PUTS IT BEHIND THAT, IF THAT MAKES SENSE. YEAH. SO YOU CAN THINK OF THE WHICH IS TECHNICALLY OWNED BY THE CITY, OR POSSIBLY GDOT OR WHOMEVER CONTROLS THAT ROAD.
OKAY. SO YEAH, SO YOU FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH THAT.
AND IF A NEW BUILDING'S COMING TO TOWN, THEN, I MEAN, HOW DO WE AS A CITY BE INTENTIONAL ABOUT THE PLACEMAKING ELEMENT SO THEY DON'T JUST SMUSH THE BUILDING UP TO THE SIDEWALK? AND THERE'S TWO CAFE TABLES ON THIS BUSY STREET. YOU KNOW, I MEAN, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT'S PART OF? WELL, SO IT'S SPELLED OUT IN EACH DISTRICT. SO WHAT THE SETBACKS ARE SO LIKE THE MIXED-USE DISTRICT IS DESIGNED TO BRING IT TO THE CORNER OF THE STREET TO ACTIVATE THAT AREA.
I'M CONCERNED. I MEAN, IF IT'S BRINGING IT TO THE STREET WITHOUT THE TRANSITION ZONE OR THE BUFFER ZONE, I MEAN, I THINK THAT'S KIND OF WHAT I'M WHAT I'M GETTING AT IT'S GOING TO BE TALKED ABOUT IN THE ACTUAL ZONING DISTRICT WHEN IT COMES TO THE SETBACKS OR CERTAIN DOOR OPEN AND OUTDOOR SEATING AREAS. LIKE THAT'S WHAT WOULD HAPPEN ON THE PRIVATE PROPERTY.
BUT IT WOULD ACTUALLY BE A CHANGE TO A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SECTION.
THAT'S MY QUESTION. YEAH. A SUPPLEMENTAL ZONE OR WHATEVER YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IS NOT PART OF THE STREETSCAPE NO, THAT WOULD BE ON THEIR PRIVATE PROPERTY. OKAY.
FAIR ENOUGH. AND THEY COULD HAVE AREAS FOR OUTDOOR SEATING.
I THINK IT'S ON CHURCH STREET. YEAH. SO I MEAN, THERE'S OPTIONS JUST AS LONG AS THEY FALL WITHIN THE REQUIRED SETBACKS OF THEIR ZONING DISTRICT. OKAY. SO I THINK THE TECHNICAL DETAILS FROM THE CURB TO THE SIDEWALK.
I DIDN'T HAVE ANY TECHNICAL COMMENTS GUIDELINES FOR NOW. SO I SENT THAT MY COMMENTS ON THAT COMMENTS I'VE SHARED IN THE PAST.
I THINK JASON SHARED SOME OF THE COMMENTS IN THE PAST AND BRINGING THEM UP AGAIN, BECAUSE THE STREETSCAPE GUIDELINES HAVE SINCE BEEN EDITED, BUT THE COMMENTS WEREN'T ADDRESSED. AND SO FIRST IS THE CURB RAMP.
AND I DID SEE THE RESPONSE, KC FROM ENGINEERING THAT I THINK THEY BASICALLY SAID, YES, THEY PREFER THE PERPENDICULAR AND THEY'RE JUST SHOWING THE SINGLE DIAGONAL ONE.
I GUESS JUST TO SHOW IT. YEAH, I GUESS LIKE, SO THEIR RESPONSE SAYS THAT BEST PRACTICE UNDER THE CURRENT ACCESSIBILITY GUIDANCE IS TO INSTALL PERPENDICULAR GUIDE RAMPS.
AND I GUESS MY QUESTION IS, IS THAT NOT WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DESIGN HERE IS LIKE WHAT BEST PRACTICE SHOULD LOOK LIKE? AND IF SO, THAT'S THE REASON. LIKE, AS SOMEBODY WHO'S HAD TO PUSH A STROLLER AND GO OUT INTO THE MIDDLE OF THE INTERSECTION ON A INTERSECTION THAT WAS JUST DESIGNED, REDESIGNED 3 OR 4 YEARS AGO AT CHURCH STREET AND COMMERCE, LIKE HAVING TO GO OUT INTO THAT INTERSECTION FOR EVEN A COUPLE FEET WITH A STROLLER IS A TERRIFYING EXPERIENCE. SO LIKE, I DO THINK THAT LIKE, IF WE'RE DESIGNING BEST PRACTICE, THAT IT WOULD BE NICE FOR IT TO REFLECT WHAT THEY EXPECT THE BEST PRACTICE TO BE RATHER THAN JUST WHAT'S ACCEPTABLE.
SURE. LIKE I SAID, I ASK THEM THAT QUESTION. THAT WAS THE.
YES KC, WHERE I'M GOING TO GO IS JASON BROUGHT THIS UP A YEAR AGO AND THEY IGNORED IT.
I'LL SAY THEY IGNORED IT OR THEY CHOSE TO NOT DO IT.
[00:25:03]
WHY? OTHER THAN THEY ALREADY HAD THE DIAGRAM SHOWING A DIAGONAL? BUT THE PERPENDICULAR DIAGRAM IS EASILY AVAILABLE.I MEAN, IT'S A FEDERAL DOCUMENT. SO IT'S LIKE WHY? WHY? I DON'T HAVE THAT ANSWER. I'VE ASKED THEM THE QUESTION AND THAT'S THE RESPONSE I GOT. SO I CAN ASK IT DEEPER.
WE'RE INCONSISTENT AGAIN WITH DEFINING THE DIMENSION OF THE LANDSCAPE ZONE.
IN SOME OF THE DETAILS THEY DEFINE IT AS FOUR FOOT SIX.
WHEN YOU TAKE OUT THE SIX-INCH CURB AND ANOTHER DETAIL, IT'S SHOWN AS FIVE-FEET.
BUT IN THE UDO IT'S SIX-FEET. SO IN ORDER TO AGAIN BRING CONSISTENCY RATHER THAN SHOW IT LIKE ONE OF THE RULES IN WRITING SPEC LANGUAGE AND DESIGN DOCUMENTS IS YOU SAY AT ONE PLACE AND THEN YOU REFER BACK TO IT.
SO RATHER THAN PROPAGATE THESE DIMENSIONS ALL THROUGHOUT THESE GUIDELINES AND CODES, LET'S PUT IT IN ONE SPOT AND THEN ALWAYS REFER TO THAT. SO MY COMMENTS BASICALLY IS REFER TO UDO 8.2.3.D AND ALSO DEFINE THAT BACK CURVE DIMENSION IS SIX INCHES IN THE DETAIL THAT APPLIES TOO. I THINK, THREE OF THEM.
MAYBE FOUR OF THEM. SOME OF THE STANDARDS HAVE INCONSISTENT USES OF WHAT IS DEFINED, WHAT WE DEFINE AS THE LANDSCAPE ZONE IN THE UDO. THEY CALL IT A PLANTING ZONE. THEY CALL IT A PLANTING STRIP.
LET'S GET ALL THAT CHANGED. MAKE IT ALL LANDSCAPE ZONE.
SO THERE'S CONSISTENCY BETWEEN THE THE DOCUMENTS.
SO I'M TRYING TO FIX THAT. SO YOU CAN SEE THOSE NOTES THE SECTION OF THE TREE PLANTING IN THE WELL. SHARED THIS WITH SOME LANDSCAPE ARCHITECTS.
EVERY ONE OF THEM REACTED THE SAME WAY I DID WHEN I SAW IT.
OH MY GOSH, YOU'RE GOING TO KILL THE TREE OR IT WILL GREATLY SUFFER.
EVERYTHING IN ISA. RECOMMENDS THE COLOR OF THE TREE.
BE AT THE SOIL LEVEL RIGHT NOW IT IS SHOWN BELOW THE SOIL LEVEL.
THE SOIL LEVEL IS SHOWN BELOW THE LIP OF THE CURVE, WHICH MEANS IT'S GOING TO POND WATER.
WHICH IS NOT A GOOD THING FOR TREES UNLESS YOU'RE A CYPRESS IN THE SWAMP.
YOU PULL THAT BACK. SO I'VE AGAIN NOTED THIS, THIS IS SOMETHING I NOTED AGAIN A YEAR AGO.
THE STANDARD DIDN'T CHANGE. SO I'M DOING IT NOW IN A MORE PUBLIC WAY.
THE DIMENSIONS WITHIN THE TREE. WELL, AGAIN, WE'RE NOT CONSISTENT.
THEY'RE SHOWING FIVE-FEET. THAT SHOULD JUST REFERENCE THE UDO AGAIN.
TREE SPECIES. I DID SHARE TREE SPECIES. KAY DID RESPOND.
THANK YOU. AND I WILL SAY THIS COMPARED TO A YEAR AGO, THE PLANT SELECTION IS FANTASTIC.
MUCH, MUCH, MUCH BETTER. I THINK IT COULD BE A LITTLE BIT BETTER WITH AND, AND KAY, I APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, ANYBODY CAN BRING YOU MORE IDEAS AND YOU'LL CONSIDER THEM SINCE THIS IS A GUIDELINE, I WOULD, I WOULD SAY, WELL, WHY DON'T WE JUST KIND OF GIVE THEM SOME MORE IDEAS? SO THAT. TONY'S NOT ONE OF THEM. THE LAZY LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT SEES A LIST OF TEN INSTEAD OF A LIST OF FIVE AND MAYBE PICK SOME THAT THEY MIGHT NOT HAVE THOUGHT OF BECAUSE WE SUGGESTED SOME OR.
EVERY OTHER PROPERTY RIGHT IN THAT SAME AREA ALL HAVE THE SAME.
SO I WOULD ENCOURAGE, STRONGLY ENCOURAGE ADDING THE OTHER NATIVE SPECIES THAT I'VE, THAT I'VE PUT IN HERE EDITORIAL CHANGE ON PURPLE SMOKE TREE, THE LATIN NAME FOR IT IS, IS NOT CORRECT OR YOU INTEND IT TO BE THE AMERICAN SMOKE TREE BECAUSE OF THE LATIN NAME. BUT THE COMMON NAME IS SHOWN AS PURPLE SMOKE TREE.
SO CHANGE THE COMMON NAME TO AMERICAN SMOKE TREE AND EVERYTHING IS AGAIN, JUST AGAIN, CONSISTENCY.
I WILL USE THE TERM LOCALLY EVOLVED PLANTS. SINCE NONE OF US ARE QUITE FRANKLY NATIVE.
[00:30:04]
SO I LIKE TO USE THE TERM LOCALLY EVOLVED. SO INDIAN AZALEA NOT LOCALLY INVOLVED.WE'VE GOT A LOT OF SHRUBS IN THERE ALREADY. I THINK THAT COULD BE REMOVED WITH NO LOSS.
AND THERE'S SOME OTHER SHRUBS I RECOMMENDED THAT ARE LOCALLY EVOLVED.
IN THE GROUND COVERS, CATMINT AND CREEPING THYME, NOT LOCALLY INVOLVED.
GOT A LOT OF OTHER ONES THAT WE CAN DO. SOME OTHERS THAT I SUGGESTED THAT ARE LOCALLY EVOLVED.
SO AGAIN, REALLY ENCOURAGED TO, TO REALLY FOLLOW THE ENVIRONMENTAL SUSTAINABILITY PLAN AND LET THE CITY OF DECATUR BE THE EXAMPLE OF THIS IS HOW YOU USE LOCALLY EVOLVED PLANTS. AND YOU KNOW WHAT? THEY'RE AWESOME, YOU KNOW? SO BUT AGAIN, I REALLY WANT TO GIVE A SHOUT OUT TO THE CHANGES MADE FANTASTIC FROM A PLANT SPECIES.
AND THANK GOODNESS YOU GOT UP OUT OF THERE. YEAH.
[LAUGHTER]. APPRECIATE THAT. AND UNDERSTORY TREES.
YES, THAT'S, YOU'RE RIGHT. THEY DO CREATE SIGHT LINE ISSUES.
YEAH. COULD YOU ADDRESS KIND OF HOW YOU HANDLE THAT? YES. EVERYBODY, FOR THOSE THAT DON'T KNOW ME, MY NAME IS KAY EVANOVICH AND I'M ONE OF THE CITY ARBORISTS.
DOING THIS FOR 20 PLUS YEARS. IN THE. THESE GUIDELINES ALL REFER BACK TO THE CODE ITSELF.
SO THE GUIDELINES STILL HAVE TO GO THROUGH FULL REVIEW.
THEY HAVE TO MEET WITH THE CITY ARBORIST PRE-APPLICATION.
IT DEFINES SINGLE TRUNKS. IT DEFINES HOW FAR UP THEY HAVE TO BE PRUNED.
BELIEVE ME, I HEAR YOU WITH SOME OF THE STUFF THAT WAS CHOSEN.
HOWEVER, SOME OF OUR NATIVES, IF YOU PUT THEM IN THAT PLANTING WELL WITH THE TREES AND YOU HAVE PEOPLE STEPPING ALL OVER THEM, WHICH INEVITABLY HAPPENS, THEY'RE GOING TO DIE. SO THE ONES WE TRIED TO PICK AFTER GOING AROUND WITH THE MASTER NATURALIST AND EVERYBODY ELSE AND ALL THE INPUT WE HAD WERE, WERE PLANTS THAT COULD ACTUALLY HOLD UP TO THAT KIND OF THING.
THE DETAIL CLEARLY SAYS THE MULCH CANNOT BE UP AGAINST THE TRUNKS.
IN THE UDO, IT SAYS THAT IT'S NOT SOMETHING WE'LL APPROVE.
WE GO BASICALLY BY THAT 2-2 RULE, TWO INCHES OF MULCH TWO INCHES AWAY FROM THE TREE.
SO YOU CAN'T HAVE THAT ON THERE. AND I'M NOT SURE WHAT VERSION YOU ARE LOOKING AT.
I'M LOOKING AT THE VERSION SHE SENT US FOR OUR MINUTES FOR THE AGENDA.
I'M NOT SURE. LIKE I SAID, I HAVEN'T SEEN WHAT GOT SENT OUT, BUT THERE WAS AN ISSUE WITH THE DETAILS AND WHAT YOU WERE ACTUALLY SENT WAS A PREVIOUS VERSION. IT DIDN'T EVEN HAVE THE UPDATES OF ALL THE PLANTS.
SO I'M NOT REALLY. I HAVEN'T SEEN WHICH ONE YOU'RE LOOKING AT.
TO GO IN FRONT OF CITY COMMISSION A MONTH AGO.
WAS NOT CORRECT. WAS NOT CORRECT. AND THEN THE VERSION THAT WE GOT IN OUR MATERIALS WAS NOT THE SAME VERSION AS THE CITY COMMISSION WAS POTENTIALLY GOING TO SEE A MONTH AGO. SO AND THAT'S, THAT'S THE VERSION I WAS LOOKING AT.
THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO MAKE SURE. IS THAT THE CORRECT VERSION THAT HAS ALL THE DIFFERENT, YOU KNOW. AND YOU'LL NOTICE THERE'S LIKE THREE OR 3 OR 4 DIFFERENT SCENARIOS FOR THOSE TREES AND HOW THEY'RE PLANTED IN THE WELLS.
AND THAT ALL HAS TO DEAL WITH WHAT ARE WE DEALING WITH? ARE WE DEALING WITH A SPACE THAT ACTUALLY IS GOING TO HAVE THE UNDER, YOU KNOW, SYSTEM WHERE YOU HAVE THE STRUCTURAL SOIL CELLS ALL ALONG THE SIDEWALK, WHICH IS THE ONE I PREFER, BUT IN CERTAIN, CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES, WE CAN'T INSTALL THOSE BECAUSE OF THE DEPTH OF THE UTILITIES AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF.
SO WE HAD TO GIVE ALTERNATE IDEAS THAT WILL FIT THE SCENARIO THAT THEY'RE DEALING WITH.
NONE OF OUR [LAUGHTER] SIDEWALKS AND STREET AREAS AND TREE WELLS ARE THE SAME.
DOWNTOWN PONCE IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT THAN, YOU KNOW, THE WEST SIDE.
SO WE TRIED TO TAKE ALL THAT IN AND IT'S REALLY HARD TO MAKE ONE GUIDE FIT ALL THE SCENARIOS.
THAT'S WHY WE GAVE DIFFERENT OPTIONS THAT CAN BE CHOSEN. AND REMEMBER, LIKE I SAID, THEY'RE LOOKING AT THE GUIDE, THEY'RE SEEING WHAT THE OPTIONS ARE. THEN THEY HAVE TO MEET WITH FIRST THE CITY ARBORIST TO DISCUSS HOW THEY'RE GOING TO DO THIS PROJECT AND MAKE IT COMPLY WITH EVERYTHING.
[00:35:06]
STREETSCAPE PLANTING REQUIREMENTS, TREE REQUIREMENTS, ALL THAT STUFF SO.ARE THESE THE STANDARDS LIKE STANDARD 502A 502B, ETC.
ARE THEY EDITABLE BY THE CITY OF DECATUR? DO YOU HAVE THE GRAPHICS? YOU CAN EDIT THEM? I DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE THE INDIVIDUAL GRAPHICS.
I CAN'T EDIT THEM. BUT I BELIEVE OUR DESIGN PERSON CAN DOES THAT I THINK. I THINK IF YOU LOOK THE SOIL LEVEL IS BELOW THE SIDEWALK LEVEL IN, IN LIKE I'M LOOKING AT 502A RIGHT NOW AND IT SHOWS A SIX-INCH CURB ON THE SIDEWALK SIDE.
RIGHT, THERE SHOULD BE A NOTCH IN THE DETAIL.
RIGHT, BUT BELOW THAT IS THE TOP OF THE THREE-INCH LAYER OF MULCH.
SO I'LL HAVE TO LOOK AT THAT BECAUSE I DIDN'T LIKE I SAID, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT THAT I DIDN'T LOOK AT.
I STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU GOT SENT SO. WHAT'S YOUR POINT ABOUT CONSISTENCY? WHY? AND THE DIMENSION IS SHOWN AS FIVE-FEET, SIX-FEET, WHICH NEEDS TO BE PER UDO.
THE WHOLE DOCUMENT I MEAN, I GUESS, I MEAN, THERE IS THAT LIKE. IT IS THAT DETAIL SHOWN IN THE UDO.
YOU SAY THE CODE IS IT IN THE UDO THE TREE.
SO THERE WAS NO WAY TO CRAM EVERYTHING INTO THE CODE.
SO WE HAVE THE YOU SHALL'S [LAUGHTER] IN THE CODE AND THEN THE HOW TO'S IN THE GUIDE.
I MEAN, IN THE ADMINISTRATIVE STANDARDS. IS THIS AN ADMINISTRATIVE STANDARD? THIS IS A GUIDELINE.
OKAY. SO IT'S AN EXAMPLE. IT'S EXAMPLES, EXCUSE ME, OF HOW WE WANT EVERYTHING TO LOOK.
RIGHT. YOU KNOW, THAT KIND OF THING SO THAT IT ALL IS UNIFORM, HOPEFULLY FOR THE SITUATION IT'S IN.
AND EACH ONE OF THOSE WELLS HAS AN UNDERDRAIN.
SO THAT'S SUPPOSED TO TIE IN AND TAKE EXCESS OUT, WHETHER IT'S PIPE OR IT'S.
GRAVEL. GRAVEL. RIGHT. BUT THAT HASN'T BEEN WHAT WE'VE EXPERIENCED IN OUR TREE WELLS.
WE'VE EXPERIENCED LACK OF WATER INSTEAD [LAUGHTER] OF OVER WATER.
SO. RIGHT. SO IN, IN THE DOCUMENT THAT I SHARED WITH PLANNING COMMISSION EARLIER TODAY, AND KC HAS A COPY OF IT, I INCLUDED THE CITY OF ATLANTA'S TREE WELL DETAIL WHICH DOES LOOK DIFFERENT THAN THE DETAIL SHOWN IN THE CITY OF DECATUR'S SOIL LEVEL IS AT THE HEIGHT OF THE CURB.
RIGHT. MULCH IS ABOVE THAT, PULLED BACK FROM THE TREE TRUNK AND THE COLLAR OR FLANGE OF THE TREE.
AND FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO MAY OR MAY NOT KNOW, YOU KNOW THE TREE TRUNK WHEN IT HITS WHERE THE ROOTS ARE FLARES OUT AND YOU DO NOT WANT TO BURY THAT. RIGHT. NO, WE'RE FULLY AWARE OF THAT.
AND WE HAD AND I DON'T SEE THE DIAGRAM IN HERE.
OKAY, SO I'LL HAVE TO GO BACK AND FIND OUT WHAT WENT WRONG.
MY UNDERSTANDING IS THIS POTENTIALLY IS GOING TO GO IN FRONT OF THE CITY COMMISSION ON MONDAY, KC? THAT'S LIKE I SAID EARLIER, THAT'S THE STANDARD RIGHT NOW.
WE'RE HERE TO HAVE THE COMMENTS OF SOMETHING CHANGES.
AND IT SHOULD NOT HAVE THE MULCH ALL THE WAY TO THE TRUNK. THE NOTES AREN'T THERE.
NOT TO NOT TO BELABOR. I'M JUST CURIOUS NOW, LIKE, ARE THESE STANDARDS NEWLY DRAWN OR ARE WE JUST TAKING THE EXISTING STANDARD FROM THE APPLICABLE ORDINANCE AND COPYING THEM SO THERE'S NO DISCREPANCY? I TOOK THE ORIGINAL STANDARD ON 502A AND MODIFIED THAT AND HAD THOSE NOTES ON THE BOTTOM. ABOUT MULCH AND DEPTH AND ALL THAT STUFF.
AND THERE, THERE ARE NO, [LAUGHTER] THERE'S NO NOTES ON THE BOTTOM OF ANY OF THESE WELLS.
SO I JUST THINK THAT GOT MISSED. NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THEM.
ALL RIGHT. SO I GUESS I AM GOING TO MAKE A MOTION EVEN THOUGH WE TECHNICALLY THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT WE APPROVE, BUT I CAN STILL MAKE A MOTION. AND IF NOBODY SECONDS IT, THEN NOBODY SECONDS IT.
BUT I'M GOING TO MAKE A MOTION REGARDING THE PROPOSED CITY OF DECATUR STREETSCAPE GUIDELINES.
[00:40:06]
AS INCLUDED IN THE PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MATERIALS FOR MARCH 10TH, 2026.CORRECT INCONSISTENCIES IN THE PHRASES USED TO DESCRIBE THE LANDSCAPE ZONE AS STATED IN THE UDO.
CORRECT ERRORS IN THE DETAILS FOR TREE PLANTING THAT CONFLICT WITH RECOMMENDED RECOMMENDATIONS BY THE ISA AND KAY AS SHE JUST STATED AND INCLUDE ADDITIONALLY LOCALLY EVOLVED TREE SHRUB AND GROUND COVER SPECIES FOR GREATER DIVERSITY.
BOTH OF THESE ARE IN ALIGNMENT WITH THE CITY GOALS REGARDING ENVIRONMENTAL STEWARDSHIP.
I DO HAVE COPIES OF THAT IF YOU WANT IT. THAT MOTION.
SO THAT'S THE MOTION. MOTION IS THAT THAT STATEMENT IS ISSUED TO FROM US.
TO WHOM? CITY COMMISSION. IS THAT THE APPROPRIATE CHANNEL? SHOULD IT GO BACK TO THE COMMISSION. THAT WE REPORT TO THE CITY COMMISSION.
AND MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT WE REPORT TO THE CITY COMMISSION. I MEAN, YOU CAN MAKE A MOTION, LIKE I SAID, THIS HAS SO MANY DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS INVOLVED IN IT, AND I'VE BEEN COLLECTING COMMENTS.
SO IT SO ARE THEY VOTING ON MONDAY FOR A FINAL APPROVAL OF THESE OR? SO IT'S SET UP. BUT IT'S ALSO SET UP THAT I HAD TO GATHER EVERYONE'S COMMENTS.
SO AS THE COMMENTS HAVE COME THROUGH, I'VE TRIED TO GET THEM TO THE DEPARTMENTS.
THESE LAST ONES JUST CAME THROUGH THIS AFTERNOON, SO I DON'T HAVE ANY DIRECT RESPONSES TO THAT.
IF IT'S NOT READY TO GO THEN WE WILL JUST MOVE IT TO A DIFFERENT AGENDA.
I GUESS WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. DO WE HAVE ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? WHO SECONDED? MARC. THAT'S FINE. NO PROBLEM. I MEAN, I THINK THE CONSISTENCY IS REALLY IMPORTANT.
I DON'T. I DON'T HAVE STRONG FEELINGS ABOUT THE EXACT ARRANGEMENT OF MULCH OR, OR SPECIES OF OR, OR ALL THE SPECIES. BUT I COMPLETELY AGREE THAT THE CONSISTENCY OF LANGUAGE THROUGHOUT THE DOCUMENT AND DIMENSIONS IS CRUCIAL BECAUSE THE.
ANY PROJECT IS GOING TO DO THIS NEEDS TO KNOW WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO DO UPFRONT.
IF WE'RE INTENTIONALLY ISSUING DOCUMENTS THAT CREATE CONFUSION. IT'S GOING TO MAKE THINGS.
IT'S GOING TO MAKE THE PROCESS MORE FRUSTRATING, MORE EXPENSIVE. ALL THAT STUFF, LIKE IF THEY CAN LOOK AT IT ONE TIME AND KNOW, OKAY, HERE'S, HERE'S THE LANGUAGE, HERE'S THE CRITICAL DIMENSIONS.
THAT'S JUST BETTER FOR EVERYBODY. IT'S GOOD TO GET LOCALLY INVOLVED OUT THERE INTO THE PROGRAM [LAUGHTER] IT SEEMS TO MAKE SENSE. AND WHETHER IT'S A MOTION OR JUST A RECOMMENDATION TO THE COMMISSION OR ANYTHING.
I THINK THE CONSISTENCY IS VERY SO THAT'S LIKE, YOU KNOW, SIX, FIVE, SIX INCHES DIFFERENCES.
YES, YES. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION ITSELF? IF NOT, THEN WE TAKE A VOTE. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR AYE.
AYE. ALL THOSE OPPOSED NAY. MOTION PASSES. I'VE GOT ONE. I'VE GOT ANOTHER MOTION I'M JUST GOING TO MAKE. Y'ALL CAN Y'ALL CAN JUST SHOOT ME DOWN IF YOU WANT.
MY MOTION IS THE PLANNING COMMISSION RECOMMENDS TO THE CITY COMMISSION THAT THE FOLLOWING PROPOSED TEXT AMENDMENTS TO ARTICLE 8.2.2 STREET TYPES AND ARTICLE 8.2.3 EXISTING STREET STREETSCAPES IN THE DECATUR UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE BE MADE IN LIEU OF THE PROPOSED TEXT AMENDMENTS TO ARTICLE 8.2.3 EXISTING STREET STREETSCAPES INCLUDED IN THE PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MATERIALS FOR MARCH 10TH, 2026.
FILE NAME TEXT_AMENDMENT_ARTICLE_8.2.3_.PDF RATIONALE FOR THIS MOTION IS TO CORRECT THE FOLLOWING INCONSISTENCY BETWEEN SIDEWALK ZONE AND PLANTING LANDSCAPE ZONE WIDTHS, AS SHOWN IN 8.2.2 AND 8.2.3.
[00:45:02]
INCONSISTENCY BETWEEN NAMES OF STREET TYPES AND 8.2.2 AND THE NAMES FOR STREET TYPES USED IN 8.2.3.D.CORRECT NON-CODE LANGUAGE. I FOUND SOME MAYS AND ARES OR MUSTS.
SO GOT THAT ALL INTO SHALL. CLARIFY THAT THE LANDSCAPE ZONE IS THE AREA BETWEEN CURBS.
ALLOW A RANGE IN WIDTH OF RESIDENTIAL SIDEWALKS.
WE HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT THIS ONE YET. A RANGE OF WIDTH OF SIDEWALKS TO ALIGN WITH EXISTING WIDTHS, BE BASED ON PEDESTRIAN TRAFFIC NEED, AND THUS BE IN ALIGNMENT WITH THE STORMWATER MASTER PLAN TO MINIMIZE IMPERVIOUS AREAS THAT CONTRIBUTE TO STORMWATER RUNOFF AND RESTRICT THE REQUIREMENT OF THE INTERNAL SIDEWALK TO ONLY BUILDINGS ACCESSIBLE TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC, NOT TO ALL BUILDINGS, INCLUDING SINGLE FAMILY HOUSES.
AND THEN I DID TWO VERSIONS OF IT WHICH I CAN PASS AROUND.
I'LL MENTION THE RESIDENTIAL SIDEWALK THING BECAUSE I HADN'T TALKED ABOUT THAT.
AND BEFORE ANYONE MAKES THEM, MAKES A SECOND IF YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE A SECOND.
I WENT AROUND AND MEASURED SOME SIDEWALK WIDTHS.
GLENDALE, IT'S 53IN. FORKNER 48IN ON BOTH SIDES OF THE STREET.
YOUR NEWEST ONE IS 48IN, THE ONE THEY JUST POURED.
SYCAMORE, INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH AND THEN IT FANS OUT TO THE FULL. YEAH. SYCAMORE IS 42IN.
IT'S THE NARROWEST ONE I MEASURED. YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW THAT FIVE-FEET IS NEEDED EVERYWHERE IN THE CITY, IN EVERY RESIDENTIAL AREA. SO I THINK PROVIDE CHANGING THE TABLE TO ALLOW A RANGE OF THREE AND A HALF TO FIVE-FEET AND BASING THAT ON NEED. IT'S NOT INDIFFERENT THAN HOW WE BASE ROAD WIDTHS AND HOW MANY LANES WE HAVE.
IT'S CERTAINLY ALWAYS ALLOWS THE ADMINISTRATOR TO MAKE EXCEPTIONS TO THE WIDTH.
I KNOW THAT'S IN THERE RIGHT NOW. BUT IT PROVIDES SOME GUIDANCE TO ALL THOSE INVOLVED WITH, HEY, HOW DO I DESIGN THIS SIDEWALK TO DESIGN A SIDEWALK THAT'S APPROPRIATE.
SOME PLACES IT MAY BE APPROPRIATE TO HAVE FIVE-FEET.
OTHER PLACES, 42IN MIGHT JUST BE FINE. AND I MENTIONED, YOU KNOW, IN THE NOTE IN THE TABLE WHEN I PROPOSED, IT SAYS, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE, IF YOU'RE CONNECTING TO AN EXISTING SIDEWALK, YOU SHOULD MATCH THAT WIDTH.
LIKE YOU DON'T. THAT, TO ME, THAT WOULD MAKE SENSE.
LIKE IT'S ALREADY 48 THEN MATCH AT 48, YOU KNOW? SO HOW DOES THAT WORK THEN ON A PLACE LIKE CHURCH STREET, WHEN THEY REDID CHURCH STREET, IT TURNS ONTO FORKNER AT THE NEW WIDTH AND THEN THE OLD WIDTH IS ALREADY THERE. HOW WOULD THEY? YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK THEY COULD THEN LOOK AT WELL, WHAT DO YOU NEED ON FORKNER VERSUS WHAT DO YOU NEED ON CHURCH? TWO KIND OF TWO DIFFERENT, TWO DIFFERENT USES.
AND YOU COULD ALSO SAY, WELL, IF YOU'VE GOT SIDEWALK ON BOTH SIDES OF THE STREET, MAYBE YOU COULD BE SLIGHTLY NARROWER THEN, YOU KNOW, VERSUS JUST HAVING ONE ON ONE SIDE.
YEAH. I MEAN, BUT AT THE SAME TIME IT HAS TO START SOMEWHERE. AND I KNOW, I UNDERSTAND THAT IT LOOKS SILLY FOR A LITTLE WHILE, BUT IF YOU'RE MOVING TOWARDS A WIDER STANDARD, I THINK THAT ENFORCING THAT MAKES SENSE. AND JOHN, I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT.
MANY, MANY PLACES YOU CANNOT DO FIVE FOOT SIDEWALKS.
RIGHT. IT'S IMPOSSIBLE. I MEAN, SOME PLACES THREE FEET SIDEWALK IS ALREADY AS WIDE AS YOU CAN GET.
SO I DID, AND I WENT AROUND OTHER PARTS OF THE CITY.
AND, YOU KNOW, ACTUALLY ON SCOTT ACTUALLY THAT WAS ANOTHER ONE.
SCOTT BOULEVARD IN FRONT OF WESTCHESTER. 42IN ON SCOTT BOULEVARD.
THERE'S ONE THAT ARGUABLY MAYBE SHOULD BE 48 OR BUT OR 53.
BUT RIGHT NOW IT'S 42. AND, AND IT HAS LIKE A ONE FOOT LANDSCAPE.
[LAUGHTER] SO ANYWAY, ALL RIGHT, SO THAT, THAT'S MY MOTION. I EXPLAINED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT LAST ONE. SO ANYWAY, I'LL SHUT UP. DO YOU HAVE COPIES OF THAT? YEAH.
WE HAVE A MOTION. DO WE HAVE A SECOND? I SECOND IT.
ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION? WHICH ONE IS GOING TO GOVERN US? CONSISTENCY BETWEEN THE OH, IT WILL. MY EDITS. IT ALL REFERS TO THE TO THE TABLE 8.2.3.D.
[00:50:04]
WHICH IS THE WIDER, SO RATHER THAN HAVING IN THE STREET TYPES IN 8.2.2 WHERE THEY HAVE WHERE THEY HAVE THOSE SAME THINGS.PUT IT ALL IN ONE TABLE. YEAH. SO, SO RIGHT NOW THEY SHOW SIDEWALK AND THIS ONE.
LIKE THIS ONE IS SIX-FEET, SIX-FEET. WHEREAS 8.2.3.D IS FIVE-FEET TWO-FEET RIGHT NOW.
I'M JUST WONDERING, WAS THE INTENT TO BE BIGGER OR SMALLER? DOES IT MATTER I DON'T KNOW THE HISTORY. BUT THAT IS HOW ALL ANY NEW STREET IS TO BE DESIGNED, WHICH MEANS THAT THE RIGHT OF WAYS WOULD BE DEDICATED TO ACTUALLY ACCOMMODATE ALL OF THOSE. A LOT OF THE ISSUES WE HAVE WHEN IT COMES TO STREETSCAPES AND RIGHT OF WAYS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, IS WE ARE BOUND BY WHAT HAS EVER BEEN THERE FOR DECADES.
SO WHEN TRANSPORTATION AND THE PUBLIC WORKS TEAM LOOKS AT HOW WIDE A SIDEWALK SHOULD BE, THEY HAVE TO ACTUALLY TAKE ALL OF THAT INTO ACCOMMODATION. NOT ONLY WHAT IS AN EXISTING, WHAT, IF ANYTHING, THE CITY IS PROPOSING IN THE FUTURE FOR CHANGES OR ANY NEW DEVELOPMENT THAT WOULD COME IN. SO THEY STILL WITHIN THE WITHIN THE UDO HAVE THE ABILITY TO LOWER THOSE TO MATCH WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE ACTUAL DEDICATED RIGHT OF WAY.
AND THAT'S WHAT OUR ENGINEERING TEAM DOES WHEN WE HAVE NEW RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT, EVEN IF IT'S A SINGLE FAMILY HOME OR WHETHER IT'S NEW LARGE DEVELOPMENTS LIKE THE OLD KROGER SITE OR WHETHER IT IS A CITY PROJECT COMING THROUGH AND GOING THROUGH EITHER A WHOLE NEIGHBORHOOD OR A STREET SECTION OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. SO THERE'S A LOT THAT THEY LOOK AT.
MY ONLY COMMENT ON THIS PROPOSAL WOULD BE THAT A LOT OF TIMES WE REFER BACK TO THE NACTO GUIDELINES FOR STREETSCAPES, AND THEY RECOMMEND A MINIMUM OF FIVE-FEET. THEIR PREFERRED IS FIVE-FEET FOR ALL SIDEWALKS, EVEN WITHIN RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS. I DON'T NECESSARILY SEE ANY REASON TO PUSH THAT DOWN TO THREE WHEN THAT'S NOT WHAT INDUSTRY STANDARDS ARE PUSHING FOR. THAT WOULD BE A CHANGE TO THE 8.2.3.D TO JUST FROM WHAT I SAID, TO JUST LEAVE IT AS FIVE-FEET? EFFECTIVELY YEAH. I MEAN I'LL TAKE THAT AS A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT.
DO YOU AGREE? YEAH. I KNOW YOU SECONDED IT TONY.
YOU HAVE TO AGREE. YES I AGREE, THAT'S FINE. IT'S ALL A LOT HAS TO DO WITH THE CONDITION OF THIS.
YEAH. AND BUT THEN YOU GET THE EXCEPTION AND YES YOU GET THE EXCEPTION OKAY. YES. OKAY. SO THAT'S CHANGED. FRIENDLY AMENDMENT.
ANY OTHER ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION ON THE. I GUESS WE CAN TAKE A VOTE.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED.
AND THE MOTION PASSES. DO YOU HAVE ANY MORE MOTIONS FOR US? NO, I HAD TWO. [LAUGHTER].
[VI.b. Next meeting: April 14, 2026.]
OKAY. WE HAVE ONE ITEM FOR THAT. AND THEN JUST A COUPLE HIGHLIGHTS.I THINK SOME OF YOU KNOW, AND JASON IS ON OUR STEERING COMMITTEE FOR THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, SO YOU CAN JUMP IN AT ANY TIME. BUT I THINK YOU ALL RECALL WE'VE STARTED THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN UPDATE PROCESS.
SO THIS IS JUST A FIVE-YEAR PROCESS WORKING WITH CONSULTANTS.
WE DID HAVE A KICKOFF MEETING FOR BOTH OUR STEERING COMMITTEE WHICH IS BASICALLY AT LEAST ONE APPOINTMENT FROM THE VARIOUS BOARDS AND GROUPS AND AGENCIES THAT WE WORK WITH AS IT RELATES TO THE DIFFERENT COMPONENTS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WHEN IT COMES TO THE COMP PLAN.
SO TRANSPORTATION, LAND USE, HISTORICAL INFORMATION, HOUSING, PARKS AND REC ARE ALL IN THAT UPDATE. AND CLIMATE SUSTAINABILITY IS ALSO WITHIN HOURS AS A REQUIREMENT.
AND THEN WE WILL HAVE A, ANOTHER PUBLIC MEETING ON MARCH 18TH AT THE OAKHURST REC CENTER.
IF Y'ALL WANT TO COME OUT AND JOIN US. THAT WILL BE FROM 6:00 TO 8:00.
KIND OF A LITTLE BIT MORE OF AN OPEN HOUSE FORMAT.
[00:55:05]
THEY DON'T HAVE ALL THEIR HOMEWORK ASSIGNMENTS YET, BUT THEY'RE CLOSE TO COMING [LAUGHTER]. AT ONE MEETING.SO IT WAS A VERY HIGH-LEVEL INTRODUCTORY MEETING.
SO. ANY OTHER? THAT'S ALL I HAVE. ALL RIGHT. I THINK WE'VE REACHED EVERYTHING ON THE AGENDA.
AT THIS POINT DO WE HAVE A MOTION TO ADJOURN? SO MOVED. SECOND. ALL RIGHT WE HAVE A MOTION A SECOND.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR? AYE. AND WE ARE ADJOURNED.
AWESOME. I'M SORRY, WHO WAS THE MOTION AND THE
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.